One thing i'd like to discuss is probably only for the children of the psychopaths.

oftentimes i can identify with 'behaviors' of the psychopaths - that i share these behaviors. but i'm not a psychopath, i am just a 'child' protecting myself against danger. i'm seeing that that is why i struggle with relationships. i'm perceived as being very strong, cold, and probably a little mean. but i'm not. inside my whole being is screaming for peace and safety. when it's over, i cry easily. i'm sad for the world. i retreat to recharge. but i can't show it.. i have to be strong. i grew up surrounded by great danger. signs of weakness were punished and manipulated. i can equal the stare, the calm exterior, of the psychopath. and sadly that is now how i operate. it sucks.

so that's more of reason to explain that we can't look at the exterior behaviours.

my one brother for instance could be perceived as a psychopath. but he's not, he's just my dads slave.

i need to soften up my approach to interacting. that's my work. it's so hard. i feel like i always have my dukes up.. always at ready.

so for all of you out there that are trying to determine of someone is a psychopath or not. i don't think behaviours are the best test. and actually it's very hard to know unless you're emotionally intimate with them. that's why the shrinks are failing at this. i think it must be so much the polar opposite of what 'humans' really are that they can't really help. they want to be able to give a test, and say if they have x traits then the patient is a psychopath. impossible. psychopaths lie - about everything - even lie detectors can't tell, because the psychopath doesn't even know the truth.

I see your point daddysproblem,

Being grown up by a psychopath can easily make you behave like a psychopath too, or at least pick up certain behaviors of the psychopath, kids are the mirrors of their own parents, a child will always see his/her parents as idols until he starts discovering his own ego and personality.

I would highly disagree with your statement though "Psychopaths" ARE psychopaths and their behavior clearly shows psychopathy, the behavior is the main ingredient in diagnosing a psychopath and here's why -

1) You can never, ever in your life decode someone's brain to know what's inside them, what they feel, and what they think.

2) Psychopaths might or might not have another mental disorder. Many that end up in the psychiatrist office will surely lie, and they manipulate the doctor as they wish. (the behaviors and way of living, are the main aspects of what makes a psychopath.

3) Psychopathy is a psychiatric label - we all know this - You need months and months to come up with a clear diagnoses of psychopathy - no doctor would be able to diagnose a psychopath on the first appointment. Look into the psychopath's past, write down all his/her behaviors on a sheet of paper, analyze them closely and there you have the psychopath. All psychopaths have tortured animals in their childhood, have burned things down, stole things, sneaked out of the house, had trouble at school, they have been bullies. Look for a moment in their adult years and you'll see : manipulation, grandiosity, problems with the law, conning, lying to get away, torturing and abusing other people including their family, impulsive behavior, high risk behavior, shopping, gambling sprees, multiple sex partners even though they are in stable relationship you name it. This has everything to do with BEHAVIOR.

If it was not the behavior, then the doctors would probably never be able to diagnose a true psychopath.


Xe

Originally Posted By: daddysproblem



I believe shrinks are often Psychopaths themselves... at least they appear so and honestly it's a dream job for one. I generally don't have this profession in high regard, I guess there are some really good out there but personally never met any.
But you're totally right - it's hard to see if somebody is a Psychopath if you're not really close to them emotionally unless they really bring it on in a spectacular way. Or if you observe them long enough - it can be seen but you need to look for patterns and for prolonged periods of time.

There are people who may appear like Psychopaths but usually you can tell a person who hides in a shell from a soulless ghoul.

Haha :-)

Crocodile you hit the nail on the head.

I completely agree with what you said. Two of my former psychiatrist looked definitely like psychopath themselves, one had the stare of a psychopath and seemed as if she's taking 6mg of xanax in one go. She had no facial expression, she was so blunt and looked like she's not there.

The second one I noticed to be strange looked severely ill, and the same, anything you'd say to her she would not even blink - anyway, imagine that most of the psychiatrist chose their profession because they had had issue (mental) themselves, I would like to become a psychiatrist myself, and that is only because I dealt so much with anxiety and depression, I read psychiatry for thousands of hours and did it with one scope - to educate myself, it eventually turned into a normal day to day thing, I read daily.

Based on the DSM criteria for psychopathy, doctors can diagnose a psychopath, but only if the Psychopath is honest and does not try to con and lie in the doctor's office. Many psychopath do not end up in a pdoc's office or in a psychiatric ward (they believe their ways are normal). However the ones that do end up, usually suffer from deep depression, psychosis and other mental illnesses, besides psychopathy.

Xe

Look into the psychopath's past, write down all his/her behaviors on a sheet of paper, analyze them closely and there you have the psychopath. All psychopaths have tortured animals in their childhood, have burned things down, stole things, sneaked out of the house, had trouble at school, they have been bullies. Look for a moment in their adult years and you'll see : manipulation, grandiosity, problems with the law, conning, lying to get away, torturing and abusing other people including their family, impulsive behavior, high risk behavior, shopping, gambling sprees, multiple sex partners even though they are in stable relationship you name it. This has everything to do with BEHAVIOR. If it was not the behavior, then the doctors would probably never be able to diagnose a true psychopath.

Xe, sadly the above is not been shown to be true. using my father as an example, which is what has brought me here. you would have thought we were the perfect family. he loves animals - no torturing, in fact raised some farm animals in suburbia, we always had lots of pets, upstanding citizen, active at church and schools and in the community, would never steal, always did well in school and always got promoted at work, beyond expectations, never any involvement with the law except on the opposite end where they are trying to help him, married to my mother since they were teens - no clues he slept around, i don't think he's sexually motivated - but not sure there, no gambling, maybe a couple bucks here or there for the buffet. charming and funny to be around. he's a great friend. he calls everyone on their birthdays and visits here and there. always in touch. he loves an audience. so he needs to cultivate that.

if you and anyone thinks they can look at the outside and know the inside their fooling themselves. he's the slow driver on the freeway causing all the accidents. the human destruction of his wife and kids in his wake devastated us. you would love him - everybody does.

You see Xe, for the most of us, this is the problem. This is how we get or stay sucked in. And why they are able to make people think that WE are the 'bad' ones.. the crazy ones. The look on his face when me or my siblings or my mom react to something crappy he's done.. like we're crazy.. you can see him thinking (and sometimes he says it ) yup, that crap doesn't come from MY side of the family.

Originally Posted By: daddysproblem
Look into the psychopath's past, write down all his/her behaviors on a sheet of paper, analyze them closely and there you have the psychopath. All psychopaths have tortured animals in their childhood, have burned things down, stole things, sneaked out of the house, had trouble at school, they have been bullies. Look for a moment in their adult years and you'll see : manipulation, grandiosity, problems with the law, conning, lying to get away, torturing and abusing other people including their family, impulsive behavior, high risk behavior, shopping, gambling sprees, multiple sex partners even though they are in stable relationship you name it. This has everything to do with BEHAVIOR. If it was not the behavior, then the doctors would probably never be able to diagnose a true psychopath.

Xe, sadly the above is not been shown to be true. using my father as an example, which is what has brought me here. you would have thought we were the perfect family. he loves animals - no torturing, in fact raised some farm animals in suburbia, we always had lots of pets, upstanding citizen, active at church and schools and in the community, would never steal, always did well in school and always got promoted at work, beyond expectations, never any involvement with the law except on the opposite end where they are trying to help him, married to my mother since they were teens - no clues he slept around, i don't think he's sexually motivated - but not sure there, no gambling, maybe a couple bucks here or there for the buffet. charming and funny to be around. he's a great friend. he calls everyone on their birthdays and visits here and there. always in touch. he loves an audience. so he needs to cultivate that.

if you and anyone thinks they can look at the outside and know the inside their fooling themselves. he's the slow driver on the freeway causing all the accidents. the human destruction of his wife and kids in his wake devastated us. you would love him - everybody does.

You see Xe, for the most of us, this is the problem. This is how we get or stay sucked in. And why they are able to make people think that WE are the 'bad' ones.. the crazy ones. The look on his face when me or my siblings or my mom react to something crappy he's done.. like we're crazy.. you can see him thinking (and sometimes he says it ) yup, that crap doesn't come from MY side of the family.


@daddysproblem

Are you sure your dad is a psychopath? Or maybe he is a narcissist rather than a psychopath?

Does he have an proper diagnoses received from a psychiatrist?

Because otherwise, you can't prove or even state he is a psychopath. There are certain symptoms that are hallmarks in psychopathy, he has to meet all the criteria, and the diagnoses might take months or years to be written on paper by a GOOD psychiatrist.

There are people that have dealt with so many psychopaths (in forensics, FBI, CIA etc) and can smell them from yards away, but still can go wrong on particular cases, this is why I am asking. Your dad seems to not have some of the characteristics of psychopathy, I don't deny it, but just saying without a diagnose he just isn't a psychopath.

Saying someone is a psychopath when you don't have a diagnose on paper, it's just like saying "hey he has AIDS" when you don't even know he has HIV infection.

I know they can be charming, it's one of the symptoms in NPD and APD (they use charm) as a protective mask.

Xe

Xe,

Please check this out, it's from this site: http://www.psychopath-research.com/forum...he_reaso#UNREAD

simply, if someone is a pathological liar, how can you test them? If they do not commit any infractions in public how do you know who they are?

Most victims here who have sought out the psychiatric community for help have been left cold. They are not very well versed on the topic and accordingly are not helpful. Additionally many people suspect that they themselves are psychopaths.

Originally Posted By: daddysproblem
Xe,

Please check this out, it's from this site: http://www.psychopath-research.com/forum...he_reaso#UNREAD

simply, if someone is a pathological liar, how can you test them? If they do not commit any infractions in public how do you know who they are?

Most victims here who have sought out the psychiatric community for help have been left cold. They are not very well versed on the topic and accordingly are not helpful. Additionally many people suspect that they themselves are psychopaths.



Sorry to say that even the best psychiatrist can screw things up, but definitely it's the psychiatrist's job to diagnose pathological liars, APD, NPD you name it. This is done through extensive interviews/tests/a written history/the family's intervention etc. Psychiatry itself has its flaws (I agree with this), but still most of the labels in the DSM exist and they can be diagnosed by a trained psychiatrist, it might take months - years. Pathological liars for instance would be able to tell you that they have got the richest dad in the world and that they own a ferrari and and the most profitable business even though they wearing a damn worn out pair of jeans and they can't even afford a pack of cigarettes. Psychiatrist's do deal with hundreds of patients per week, they do or at least should stay up to date with the latest criteria of diagnoses and should be able to come up with a correct diagnoses. (they are all just labels though, it's the treatment that speaks the truth and that is more important).

Many people suspect they are themselves psychopaths -

That is not a problem, they should seek professional help to get a proper answer.

Emotional numbness (a symptom of PTSD, depression, GAD etc) can be easily confused with a lack of empathy. That does not make someone psychopath. Usually, the background and actual behavioral history leads to the diagnoses of psychopathy. You simply need to meet the criteria that's written in the DSM.

I have dealt with psychiatric forums for 8 years now probably more - It's a rule of thumb - you cannot just "suspect" you might suffer from a condition, better seeking a professional. Just believing someone is a psychopath means nothing - this is one of the reasons for some forums where users are not even allowed to come and suggest diagnoses. (which to me seems fair).

The bottom line is that - you either have or haven't got a psychopath diagnoses (speaking of your dad's case) If he does not, then he is not a psychopath. He is just a suspected to be a psychopath, which is different.

The sad part is that - if you are dealing with a psychopath and he does accept to seek treatment, unfortunately there is no treatment for psychopathy. Happy pills makes them more psychopathic, therapy makes them more versatile, hospitalization also makes them more versatile. These things have been discussed in numerous research papers and spoken in numerous documentaries.

I'm a bit torn on that. I mean too much credit is given to the psychiatry and a lot of doctors, not only in this specialisation are if not idiots then at least not super smart people who can do little more than follow an algorithm. That's why I kind of don't believe in psychiatric diagnoses too much unless they agree with what the people close to a person confirm and only independently of the doctor's opinion. In some cases an average person is more qualified if they are close to a Psychopath than a "professional" unless you're lucky to get someone very smart and experienced in this particular problem. I hope they will develop reliable brain scan based diagnoses, that I'd trust more.

But for the most part it does not really matter if the guy who's abusing you is totally a Psychopath or just close enough. In real life you want to avoid them and protect yourself against them, that's the bottom line.
Quote:

Psychiatry itself has its flaws (I agree with this), but still most of the labels in the DSM exist and they can be diagnosed by a trained psychiatrist, it might take months - years.

First, there's a lot of criticism about the DSM even among doctors - recently NIH has launched the new initiative to develop a more objective list of psychiatric diseases based on the biology rather than checklists and subjective character evaluations. There's a reason DSM deals with "disorders" and not "diseases" - for a disease you have to show a biological pathology and the knowledge about the brain is so scarce that most of these disorders are lines in the sand during stormy weather.

When you read it almost everyone has suffered from a disorder or many of them to the point it becomes ridiculous. Sure if the doctor takes months-years to diagnose you and gets to know you as well as a family member that can make sense but everyone knows how practice looks like - one, maybe a few visits and you have your disorder and 3 packs of drugs for it (even if none are recommended by FDA or anyone reasonable since no clinical studies even addressed them for that disorder).

How did he diagnose him?