A lesson here for those people who marry psychopaths, i met my wife 5 years ago and we were both single parents with kids,we seemed perfect together and never argued, but what i did notice was that no matter where we went she would stare at young men like she wanted them,like she was in a trance, when challenged about this she would reply that staring was a habit and she did it to everybody, and i believed her as we were so good together and seemed so happy ,when she got a job early on it would take her 40-45 minutes to get home some days and an hour the others, traffic she said, and why shouldnt i believe her?, what else could it be? we are so happy together, early in the year 2000 we bought a home together and seemed to be so happy, we had a good sex life but i had noticed it tappering off, she had never expierenced an orgasm in her life with anybody, i accepted it, march 2000 we had a room painted and one of the painters was a young good looking guy, while he was walking past i noticed that my wife who had a short skirt on had her feet up on the coffee table knees bent and legs spread a bit, i was shocked, but surely she didnt realise what she was doing? i was right there sitting with her and walking around talking to these painters, (ive since found a card from the painter with an address on the back) all during our relationship she had always said that she couldnt lie or cheat on anybody, but i had seen her lie to other people, she seemed to be very very lazy and resented doing any housework even though i did all the cooking, washing ect for her to clean the bathroom made her cranky,

i noticed that i wasnt get much emotion from her, everything seemed to be sliding but she always assured me that i was the only good thing to happen in her life, she changed jobs and started work in a supermarket and everything was so happy for us, but last year i noticed she was clashing angrilly with my children all of a sudden, at the same time she was coming home sometimes with the passenger door unlocked (forgot to lock it she says) also once again sometimes 45 minutes to get hom and others an hour, i smelt a rat and checked the speedo, some days 70 klm for round trip, others 77klm, hang up phone calls started as well, in may we broke up after going 5 years without a fight, she couldnt give a reason for it, just that she was sick of it, she also swore on the lives of her children that she had not cheated on me and that she didnt want anybody or have sex again, ha ha, well when i came to my senses it became clear that she was seeing a co worker, but funny enough had also looked up an old boyfriend interstate as well and at the same time to me she was chasing a young man at the boys football club.


The lesson to learn here is that you cant apply your morals or your sense of right or wrong to these people, no matter what they say it is only to benefit them, they dont live by our emotional rules or tell the truth, its a case of what they want and who cares about anybody else, if you try and understand why they do it you will only tear yourself apart, this person nearly cost me my life, now im angry at myself for ignoring the definate signs, i was applying my values to her thinking she wasnt capable of doing it because we were so good together, people like this get a thrill out of the new relationship, the giggles and honeymoon are everything to them, there is no deep love or bond, its what thrills them at the time, if you have a partner like this you are playing with a loaded gun, they never change, they will always lie, and they will always tear appart those that love them, go by your brain and not your heart, never ignore what you see, when the cogs dont fit it usually for a good reason and not the lies they tell you.

Hi,
I have not logged on in a while and read your post. It saddened me a lot when I read how you were used and exploited by your wife. You sure have said the truth re: don't think with your heart but with your brain. Easier said then done at times. Plus the truth hurts and we don't always want to see it. I admire you for your courage.

sjs

Want a laugh?, i know my wife has placed an ad on the internet to meet men as ha ha the person who she was playing up on me with only wanted what he was getting on the side without moving in with her, theres justice, she accidently put in her old email address when emailing some guy who answered her ad and it came here instead, but the funny thing is that i found her ad and read what she was looking for in a man, and it was me all over, it 100% matched everything about me, so all the pain and agony, twisted lies and deciet and hurt, and she is looking for someone just like me???? so sick these people.

Hi Digger

Thinking back over things, I've come to the conclusion that although a psychopath is incapable of loving anybody, they are capable of liking people - in the same way that they like a particular make of car, or a particular type of food. So your P actually probably liked you a lot, and would happily settle for another 'you' - until she found out that Version 2 also had emotions, and would like her to be faithful, and all the other things she is incapable of doing. Which is when the lies and deceit and hurt (for your replacement) would start all over again. Sad, isn't it?

Yes mate thats the thing, we had a ball together, so much fun and a great sex life, thats why everybody thought we were perfect together, and she seems sweet as pie, but its all an act, i got the act right up to d day, and as for sex, well think about it? what stops us from playing up on our partners? emotion and conscience, and hello these people dont have it, and if they find a new sexual partner exciting well you are doomed to get cheated on no matter what you do, nothing will hold them back from what they find exciting and fun, and the other party will get hurt, i always say her looking but thought there was no way it could happen because we were just so good together, but to them its nothing, they got no brakes mate, nothing stops them, and when they get caught!!, once the game is up you will see the real personallity, cold, hard, cruel and tottally without remorse, it wiped me right out trying to think "WHY" "HOW COULD SHE DO THAT", but im applying my moral and emotional standards to her, thats the big mistake, tell ya straight- if you are married to someone like this, nothing you do or say will hold them from what they want, stay with them and you will get crushed, dont try and find answers or understand why they did it, i spent 5 months on the edge of putting a gun to my head, and i still have bad days, but i know the animal now and how it opperates, nobody can live with that.

There's two phrases that really strike a chord with me from your last post: "How could she do that?" and "nobody could live with that" So true. In spite of all the bad things that my P did, I still think it was the total lack of caring that hurt the most.

I'm sure we've all had days where a gun to the head sounds good, but once you realise it's not you, it's him/her, and that there is nothing you could have done to make it better, you can start building a new life and finding out how to laugh again.

All the best

The realization that it's not us - it's them - is definitely helpful. And knowing that they never change is also a plus. But the tailspins are still tough for me (even after a year of breakup and 6 months of "no contact").

Until today, I had not run into my P for over a month. He had set things up so we saw each other at the same weekly social thing, but for the last month holidays and work have kept him away.

As I was leaving a restaurant today, I was nearly knocked over by him as he entered. We both burst into smile at the bizarre nature of the encounter. He said a warm hello, I said nothing - just shook my smiling head and kept walking.

Twenty minutes later he sent the text message "I am such a dumbass". I laughed and then burst into tears. I know I can't respond to him. I remember all the hateful, callous things he said and did. I remember the betrayals and lies and walking on eggshells.

But where did all this emotion come from? Just when I'm feeling strong and happy and have a sense of excitement about my life, I'm blindsighted by it all again. Why do I cling to the idea that he may have changed?

At least the tailspins don't last as long any more...

So true lynnie, i get the same when i see my ex, but if your ex all of a sudden turns on the big im sorry act and i will never do it again its not because he loves you, its because it suits him to do it and thats what he feels is best for him at the time, and when it suited him again you would revert back to being dirt to him and broken all over again, the good thing is lynnie just imagine your next partner has the same emotions as you and the same conscience, wow what a match, thats what i think about.

Hi digger, welcome to the forum, I am sorry for the horrible events you have to live through.

Di

>>I know I can't respond to him. I remember all the hateful, callous things he said and did. I remember the betrayals and lies<<

I know what you mean, Lynnie. I know I can't respond. I have had no "on purpose" contact for about 8 months now. There have been about 3 times in the last several months where I have ran into him at a store or the mall, and all I can do is smile, say hi and keep on going. I don't dare give him the chance to talk to me and get my head to spinning. I too could easily fall into the trap of wondering if he has changed. He told me "he would never change for anybody". I have to remember that. He also said everything has to be on "his terms" for us to get along. His terms suck and are very disrespectful of me and who I am and what I believe in. Isn't it funny how we can know they are so bad for us, yet we get blindsighted so easily. What we thought we had was so good that we have hope that it really was what we thought it was. I am sure he has what we had with someone else and I live with the truth that it isn't what she thinks it is. Lies, lies, lies. The cycle is repeating itself. P. is loving it, victim thinks they are, and D & D day will begin one day again for another victim.

I hope everyone is doing great. Finished & Hopeful - hellooooo out there!!

betterway

Digger and Betterway -

Thank you for your thoughts on the subject. It's really great that when someone shares a story or a bit of wisdom on this forum, it validates what the rest of us are going through and helps keep us grounded. Even writing this stuff down helps to let go.

I know P only has relationships on his demeaning terms. I know he lies, cheats, and betrays to suit his needs. And little by little, my heart is catching up to my brain. At some point (hopefully soon), I won't need to remind myself that he is poison.

Best wishes for a safe, joyful, P-free holiday to all!

Lynne

Hi everyone

My last read for the year as we are off on holiday for xmas. Just wanted to wish you all a happy and P free Christmas, and to say as each year passes it does get better.

Have a great holiday

Recovery

One last thing!, i personnally thought my ex had came down with some mental illness as when we seperated she seemed to change completely as a person, i often said to her "who are you" because the person i had known for years seemed to be gone and replaced by this animal, but really it was just role playing, and now that my usefullness was up there was no need to even show me the slightest human decency, i still think to myself, which one was the real one?.

I think they're both real - like smoke and mirrors. For a while, I thought my P had a split personality. The "good" P is the mask he put on for society; the "bad" P is the manifestation of all his pain and rage. He created an idyllic illusion that was real to me - and to him - for a short time. I have a hard time believing that P is all bad - and I also know he can't hold it together to be good for any length of time.

I think it's human nature to try to appear better than we are. Most of us need a little "makeup" to enhance our image. P's need a "mask of sanity" so they can hide their personality disorder. They could never be successful in their lives if ALL they did was lie, cheat, and abuse. They realize they need to behave within certain norms to stay out of jail...

Who cares about them lynnie, its been 7 months for me now and i still get so upset at times, especially after i drink, i know she wont make it with anybody longterm but nothing helps me get over it, i think im ok and then i get these huge waves of emotion and hurt, at least if she was muslim i would get to throw rocks at her lol.

"They could never be successful in their lives if ALL they did was lie, cheat, and abuse. They realize they need to behave within certain norms to stay out of jail..."

P's, however, push their behavior to the absolute limits of acceptability...and beyond. That is why some of us say so often "no one could have done this consciously" and ignore those screaming red flags. Perhaps it is not all lying, cheating and abuse. Clearly, though, it is all calculated.

Rick

Digger,

First of all, welcome to the forum. At seven months I was in the same place you are....often upset with waves of frustration and hurt. It does get better with the passing of
time though...trust me. It has been one year for me now since I split with my P... and 10 months with absolutely no
contact. Often a day or so goes by when I don't even think about my P. And when I do I don't obsess any longer. You will feel better...I guarantee it.

Rick

Thanks rick, it is just so hard, the truth is i reallky felt we were perfect, but that was me ignoring the fact that no matter where we went she would stare at guys like she wanted them, " NO not my wife!!! surely she realises what we have and what our future holds!!! NOT, thats the hardest thing, the realisation that she really did want them sexually, nothing is more poainfull for a guy who loves thier partner, and the complete absence of regret or feelings from them, its like you never meant nothing to them, all the good times were forgotten, but karma has its own way doesnt it?, sure its exciting for them to cheat, but NOW they are on thier own, and all the wonderfull prince charmings seem to dump them when they see whats thier,,, its called justice.

Digger, I can empathize as a male victim (age 42) of a psychopathic wife. Perhaps being a male victim makes the experience all the more frustrating because societies inability to sympathize with male domestic victims. Get this: I was married 18 years to "the perfect wife", whom I supremely trusted, respected and loved, along with the entire community! And while your experiences are plenty bad enough and I'd NEVER want to diminish your heartaches and hardships, I too am at wit's end. HERE'S AN OVERVIEW OF MY STORY: In 1996, after a happy, prosperous & respected family life and a seemingly perfect wife of 18 years, she was caught embezzling from her employer - a national bank. Over the 8-10 years she had been stealing from the bank, my wife had also been secretly taken about as much from me and our 2 children. I had worked so hard to build security for my family and did so with impeccable integrity and honor. Sadly, we had become well-respected, serving somewhat as role models in the community. Through gut-wrenching hard work I gained a college education attending at night and advanced my position in a national jeans company. Through a miraculous stroke of luck in 1989, I became AtlantaÕs largest radio winner at the time, with a $98,000.00 cash prize! As with other family securities, I invested as I prepared for a dream of GodÕs calling. In May, 1995, I took the leap and founded my own company in a field IÕve felt deeply led to pursue since childhood. Almost exactly one year later in 1996, my world came crumbling down. My approach was to first gain truth and understanding, identify the problem whether it be OCD, drug addiction or otherwise, unite and fix the problem as a family, then help other families with similar set-backs. Finally, after 5 years of research and with the help of counselors, it became apparent that we were dealing with a PSYCHOPATH. After reviewing the work of Robert D. Hare, PhD in his book, ÒWITHOUT CONSCIENCE - The disturbing world of psychopaths among us.Ó, I had no doubt. I was astonished to learn of such a dark world among us that most well-meaning, trusting souls never could imagine, much less defend against - especially the non-violent psychopath which, according to Dr. Hare, accounts for most psychopathic behaviors. The ÒTed BundysÓ and ÒJohn Wayne GaceysÓ are the minority, Hare states. Trust me, if this happened to me, it could happen to anyone and IÕm sure many others are suffering the same as Alee & I, yet are unable to make sense of the chaos, confusion and bewilderment psychopaths inherently create. My daughter, Alee, and I are still dealing with the never-ending ploys and destruction of this beautiful, kind and trustworthy woman who was initially unmasked in 1996. Today (12/21/03) is my daughterÕs birthday, but communication is blocked. Despite my clean, rock-solid history and good reputation, it apparently means nothing in the dark shadows of an accomplished liar and convicted felon. It is beyond belief and defies logic. Somehow, IÕve got to break free from this really soon. IÕve contacted DATELINE NBC, OPRAH & JOHN WALSH. Given the chance, IÕll use a media opportunity not only to help myself but ALL OF YOU...I promise. Any suggestions out there?

Lee,

Welcome to the forum. The recounting of your story was very well put and succinct. I'm sure that I can speak for all of the forum victims in stating that our hearts go out to you. Unfortunately, only other victims can truly empathize with the pain, frustration, bewilderment, disbelief, shock, horror and loss that being involved with a psychopath generates.
The media tends to focus on the sensationalist
aspects of serial killers..but tends to ignore the more prevelant non-violent psychopaths. I even exchanged some e-mails with a local reporter that recently ran an article on a rather high profile situation within my region. She summed up the psychopathic personality and character traits with accuracy and poignancy. Still, though, she did not seem interested in expanding on the topic to cover the element that we find in commmon here. I guess it's all about headlines!
Dr. Hare's book is an invaluable resource. I will agree with you on that. I devoured it in one sitting when I first read it and picked it up, again, many months later. I would encourage you to do the same after some time passes.
It's interesting that both you and Digger have shown up recently. It is not so common, as you have read I'm sure, to encounter female psychopaths. More than 80% are male, if I remember correctly. In any event, I was also involved with a psychopath, although compared to you and many others my relationship was short term. It lasted only four months. I now look at this as a blessing. Fortunately I was not involved in business with this person, had no financial ties nor investments and there were no children to be concerned with. Still, however, I can put myself in your place. Know
that we are all here to help you however we can.

Rick

Rick, thank you for taking the time to read my story. I was comforted by your supportive message. And you are right about fewer female psychopaths. However, I can't help but wonder if certain factors are influencing the stats. For instance, as one guy mentioned to me that many guys have seen such characteristics in women but the "male ego" is sometimes reluctant to admit being victimized. Interesting. Thanks again, Rick. I appreciate you.

Hi Dad and Alee

Just catching up on the posts in December and read your story. I do wonder how common the female P is - I think it is more common that believed - maybe that is why we have the fathers4families gaining strength. But there is such a lack of understanding in the system and such potential for the male P to reap from the bandwagon to give fathers more "rights". We need recognition of all Ps and the effect on the family by the "system".

How are you and your daughter coping?

Best of luck

Recovery

Anonymous,

I'm very sorry for all your troubles with your Psychopath. I assume you left her and rightly so. How did the kids take it - My Psychopath has them all brainwashed after 19 1/2 years where they'll take her side no matter what I say - how did you deal with that? I'm afraid I'll loose my kids when I leave her. Any advise would be appreciated.