The psychopath family member in my life did a very strange crying thing also. I remember when it happened, everyone was pretty confused - looking at each other wondering what in the world brought that on. It was one of our first times encountering him and I'll never forget it. It was very strange, but a very convincing display.

I think it is easy to miss the fact there aren't any tears. I think we assume there were tears upon closer observations. I have read quite a bit about that. If you rub your eyes hard enough it is easy to give the "appearance of crying", and rubbing your eyes hard (although I have never tried crying that way;) would probably create some fluid to go with red looking eyes that we associate wtih crying.

I also don't think "normal" people like us expect to think when someone is displaying the motions of crying that they are just faking it. Our first reaction is feeling sorry for them, see how it works, they know they have to do something convincing so a good fake crying fit probably gets things back in their direction quicker.

I know that if I see a regular person crying it makes me feel empathy for them.

Di

Hi everyone, thanks for reading through such a long story. Very interesting questions about the crying. I'm trying to think back to Anna's crying and what it was like. First, I remember she never cried as a child that I ever saw or heard of. Even into the teenage years. The first time I ever remember seeing her cry was... wow, not until I went to live with her all those years later! I can't remember even one incident before that! She would get angry where other children might cry. This very cold, rigid anger, or a rage. But later on...I can't recall if I actually saw any tears rolling down her cheeks. I did see red eyes and heard sniffles. Most of her "crying" was talking in a loud, wavering voice, which could be taken as crying. I never thought about it enough to question it, except that maybe it was a trick she'd learned in drama class (which she was involved in during school years) since she could shut it off like it had never happened. Other people had also witnessed incidents where she put on an exaggerated "sad" face, like when she had run out of money and wanted a loan. This infuriated some people because it was so obviously fake.

The questions and the other experiences mentioned bring up another memory of K. the non-socialized psychopath. I know for sure I'd seen him cry real tears once, because I saw him put on a bizarre display similar to those described upthread. He showed up at my door, not having a place to stay, When I told him to leave, he began to offer me odd things in exchange for a place to sleep, like his life insurance policy and his eternal love. I told him to go away, I didn't want anything. He began crying pitifully. Now, I can't remember if he began to cry in front of me - I don't believe so. I think he went away and came back crying. When I say "pitifully" I mean the display was obviously meant to evoke pity. It was very dramatic.
He kept making exaggerated "sad puppy" eyes and sticking out his lower lip. His eyes were red and watery, with tears running down his face. When he spoke though, there was almost a jeering tone under his words. I would also see a predatory look peek out from beneath his sad ecpression. When I flatly told him no, the fake tears stopped immediately.

Yes, this is a very interesting question!

"I know that if I see a regular person crying it makes me feel empathy for them."

Dianne, That is an insightful observation; when someone expresses genuine sadness, you can actually feel it. That is probably the greatest clue whether it is real or not. As I look back on it, after my Psychopath lay shaking in the chair for an hour, she didn't require any tissues. If one were really crying for an hour, they'd need some tissues! At the end of the display, she just got up and walked back to the room, as if nothing had happened.

She also cried a couple of times when she said, "I love you." Once, when I dropped her off at the train, and knew I would be seeing her again in a week. It was like she was imitating some scene from a movie. Isn't "I love you" supposed to be a happy emotion, filled with joy? I don't think psychopaths know joy, perhaps another clue to who they are.

The last time I saw my Psychopath was at a conference at the end of last year. I still had feelings for her, plus had fond memories of going to several professional conferences with her in years prior. I asked if she wanted to grab a bite to eat together at the end of the day as we were walking to the restaurant area. She darted into a restaurant and I followed after her. She told the waitress to call the police, that I was stalking her. She acted totally bizarre, like I was threatening her life, when all I wanted to do was eat and talk about the conference. Fortunately, it was an international conference and the waiter didn't understand her. So, we sat at separate tables. On the last day of the conference, I saw her at the closing ceremony, asked if I could sit next to her and she was totally fine with that. We both wanted to do some sightseeing and she agreed we go together. We had lunch, chatted, like old times; she was calm and pleasant. She even prolonged the day by suggesting we have coffee. Finally, we stopped by a mall to get some souvenirs. I went to the bathroom, came back to the shop and couldn't find her. I stood there in the department store crying my eyes out, wondering if she'd left and having no way to contact her. I had spent all last year being blocked, then unblocked, by her from cell and email. It had been exhausting. So, I started panicking that she'd left again. As we finally said our goodbyes at the station, she shed two single, thin lines of tears, one from each eye. They were the perfect tears, not the messy, usual ones full of emotion and contorted faces. As she shed her two tears, she uttered, "I'm not a good Catholic girl," referring to her betrayal. It could have been construed as guilt, but upon further analysis, it didn't feel like she was crying for me. She seemed to be crying for the realization of who she is. Maybe that is the only time the Psychopath tears seem genuine, when they are feeling sad during that moment of honesty, when they realize who they are.

Hi skybluepaint, I personally don't think they ever acknowledge even to themselves what they are doing and about. If a person doesn't have a conscience I think they lack that personal insight. They are always the victim, it is always and will ever be about them and no one else.

They honestly think being the victim the other person deserves what they got. This latest non socialized guy I was speaking about in another thread, he sat there on the stand cool as a can be and admitted to one stabbing, the one where he said she ran into the knife and actually said, she deserved it. Naturally there were many more stab wounds which he couldn't recall. That in a nutshell is how non socialized or socialized think, they are the victim and the others (who are really the victims) deserve what they get.

No one had to hand him any tissues either when it was reported he "appeared to be crying". The day I saw him and all the horrible pictures were there a few feet away he showed no reaction.

Blame the victim, it makes my blood boil and my heart fills hearing the pain our new member Summer must have had or have to feel hearing your own mother say you probably did something to deserve it.

Remorse, guilt, pain or sorrow is reserved for them and them alone.

Di

Dianne,

You are so awesome. It is a relief to hear you say they feel nothing. It's so shocking to digest though, isn't it? But for me it is helpful because then I know it's in my control whether or not I speak to my Psychopath-dad.

My plan of action is to only communicate with him when I am 5000% ready and strong. He is so damaging. I am the only one of 4 children that are not in some way under his spell. Because of this (because he FEELS it intensely) he rewards me with doing nothing for me (of course unless he's trying to piss off someone else then I will get a reward). And then rubbing it in my face all the things he does for my siblings. Paid off sisters mortgage, bought brother new car, will give my son anything he wants (because that is the ultimate slam.. that he be my son's benefactor instead of me.. it's his BIGGEST pleasure).

Ah... so the acceptance.. that he will never be anything but an unfeeling, uncaring, Psychopath helps greatly.

I was telling someone that Psychopaths are like animals. They truly live in the moment - in a really raw and paranoid way. Everything is based on how they feel and they base how they feel on how others treat them. Every feeling they have is caused by another. I believe that when my brother or sister or whoever make him feel good. He does something for them to keep it up. I do wonder if he plans these things - you know, with the thought that it will bother me? I really don't think so.. I think he does them, does not want to do them for me (cause i make him feel bad)and tells me, because it's news - and keeps telling me because he can feel me 'squirm' which he enjoys (immensely) because i'm always punishing him (in his Psychopath-brain - ohhh i love that Psychopath-brain:) ) or how about Psychopath-Daddy (u know instead of Psychopath-diddy).

As you may notice, I use humor and make fun of all of this as much as possible. I'm sure many people view me as harsh. Well, there's one of the side effects of living with insanity.

Thanks again Dianne.

One more thing - one thing I really notice around my Dad and looking back throughout my life are his eyes. The window into his scary brain. He watches everyone so intensely. My mom used to refer to them as his beady eyes.

Do others see this in their Psychopath?

Hi daddysproblem,

You are so true about being able to know what to expect and be prepared to shield yourself from more pain by knowing so, to me knowing the results will never change no longer ends up hogging up negative space in my head. That to me is when I know the trauma is in some stage of healing because finally I got it, it was insane and no longer has any grasp on me. Are there still lingering feelings of pain, of course there are but what your approach to do is a very wise one, if you have to be in contact with your dad, be prepared and expect nothing. The tool he uses with money is just that, people fall for that in every walk of life, and in the end he may just leave it all to some old lady who lives with 100 cats instead of your siblings. People will put up with a lot to bank on some future money or things. It is a shame to endure torture for that reason but only they can decide if the game is worth the pain. In many ways it is quite sad that your siblings will stick by and take the torture, for what money, like that is a trade off for peace? You may feel alone and wonder sometimes if not being like them isn't okay because you stand alone but any decision is yours, just because everyone else is buying his tricks, standing alone will allow you peace and a better life.

Now I can look back and think of it all as what was just was and find ways to turn it into something positive. It gave me empathy for others, at times I have been told I have too much empathy, I am glad, rather too much than not enough or any.

Just to validate that I get it that no one will listen or can grasp that Psychopaths are all not hiding under rocks, very few people in my life know I have had this forum all these years. The first time I told what I thought was an open minded friend about why and the pain the victims suffered and if I could only provide a slice of support, I got that "look".

Our community is not only helping those who are able to share but many more we will never know. To me that is what a community is about.

Many times members will say they are sorry for telling a long story, there is no reason to feel sorry, that is why we are here. The more we know the better we can relate and offer support from members who stood in the same shoes. No problem is bigger or smaller than anyone else,it is how we as a community can be here to listen and understand and share is what matters.

I do strongly recommend composing long posts in Word and save as you go along, I buy this software because it works best for our needs but it is easy with one wrong click for your story to go into the orbit, so better be safe than take that chance. I still lose one now and again by hitting the wrong key.

If I could wave a magic wand and make the suffering go away I would do it in a flash, I think as a community we can be a part of that magic wand.



Never doubt that a small
group of thoughtful,
committed people can
change the world. Indeed,
it is the only thing that
ever has.

Margaret Mead

Hi daddysproblem,

I thought there was a thread here about the eyes of a Psychopath and the tears, so I am adding a new thread on the topic to share.

The Eyes and Tears of a Psychopath

When I have time I will pull out comments about the eyes from other threads.

Di

Hi Summer,

The nice thing about this forum is it is a chance to validate our experiences and see how similar they are. So, I wanted to comment on one of your earlier posts, which I felt I could relate to.


"My beau remarked that when Anna turned her attention on you, you felt "like the most important person in the world." On the other hand, we were also beginning to discover that most of her relationships were very superficial indeed."


Your beau was spot-on! The attention of a psychopath can make you feel AMAZING! My Psychopath lavished me with compliments on my interests, intellect, looks, until... she found a new victim. I don't know about others' experiences, but my Psychopath did not have any friends. Many acquaintances, but no deep long-term friendships.

" I was distressed, but still wanted to try to repair the relationship (even though I didn't know where it had gone wrong). I worried it was my fault, but didn't know what exactly I had done. I tentatively tried to talk about what I had been hearing from her friends, that she had real problems with me. I wanted to know if I could do somethimg to work it out."

I did this for over a year, blame myself, try to figure out where I went wrong. I had done some things wrong, and for a long time believed that if I had only done things differently, that she and I would still be together today. Now I know that isn't the case. No matter what I had done, even if I were perfect or you were perfect, we couldn't stop them from hurting us. The outcome would have been the same, sooner or later. However, because the Psychopath makes you feel like the most important person in the world, that you are such an integral, special part of their life, it is extremely hard to come to grips with the fact that none of it was real.

"Right before I moved out for good came the final incident which made me think for the first time that she might be a psychopath. It began with a knock at the door. There was a man at the door, crying. He asked to speak to Anna. There was some bad news about her best friend of many years. I gently told him to wait, I would go get her. When I mentioned to Anna, her reponse was off-handed and full of obscenities "What does that [censored] want? How dare he come here to speak to me....etc. I told her that something bad had happened to her friend. She shrugged "well, I don't feel like talking to him." I went to the door again and said Anna was indisposed. He looked confused and hurt. He said tearfully that her friend had been in a terrible accident and was in the ICU, not expected to live much longer. The friend had asked for Anna. He had been so sure that Anna would want to come right away - after all "they were always so close". I said I was sure Anna would come as soon as she could, and wished him well. I went back to give her the news. Her response? "Pfft.So?" I was stricken by the response. I didn't even know this girl, and I was more upset than she was."

I went to the funeral of the father of an ex whose father I had known quite well and liked. When I told the Psychopath, she said, "I don't even know that guy." I was also striken by the response. It seemed extremely rude and immature to me. I think the language of "How dare he come here to speak to me?" is also quite telling. There is a odd sense of righteous indignation and unfounded superiority I noticed in the Psychopath. It was always that odd juxtaposition between strict, disciplinarian who looked down on others and was going to put them in their place and the innocent childlike victim who needed people to help and take care of her. Now I know that if something just seems really off about someone like this, like the two sides don't match up, there is a reason!