Hi. I'm new. So much sounds so familiar. The real life experiences described here have confirmed what the articles and books I have been reading lately have lead me to suspect - I have just ended a realtionship with my very own P.

One thing I haven't come accross yet is some info on the relationship a P might have with a minor child, where the child showed lots of P potential. The only way I can describe their relationship is that he used her as a weapon to cause chaos and unhappiness and also to control situations. Examples: wouldn't allow the elder daughter her own room because the little P wouldn't respect her privacy anyway, would keep me hanging on until the last minute over weekend plans because little P hadn't decided if she wanted me and my daughter along, would complain about her behavior (usually involved lying and manipulation) but tell me, in front of her ?!?, that there was nothing he could do as she didnt respond to punishment, told me that if one day we were minutes away from getting married and little P said she didn't want it, then it wouldn't happen (definately wanted me to feel vulnerable to this kid). I could go on.

She was extremely difficult to be around (disruptive, aggressive, dishonnest, had a need to know what everyone was doing all the time, watched you like crazy and commented on every little thing you did). At first I thought she was just an unusual and challenging child and that he was too permissive as a parent and allowed her too much control perhaps because of guilt (his wife had been ill most of her life and eventually died).

My relationship with P has been over for several months now (lasted nearly 2 years) and I have sinced gained a different perspective. Although this kid seemed to frustrate the hell out of him (lots of long conversations about how awful she made his life), he refused to try to do anything about it and became very defensive when I made comments or suggestions, even ones like let me spend some one on one time with her and see if some extra attention helps. Total resistance. He presented her to me and sympathetic neighbours, teachers, ect, as his cross to bear. All I can think is that he liked to be "the poor guy who had so much to handle".

He was reluctant to give over any control in our relationship to me, but seemed to willingly offer it to this child. Not so his other daughter though. In fact he allowed the younger girl to bully the older one. It was really confusing and really weird. It's like they were a team.

I guess what I'm wondering is this: can it be genetic, like being athletic or brainy and she inherited it, or did he make this girl what she is? The girl's personality and behavior came to my attention as bizarre long before his strangeness started to add up. Anyone else have any experience with something like this?

Hi 3

Welcome to the forum and it’s interesting to hear your story, in many ways it’s similar to my own.

My partner had custody of his 9 year old son when we got together. I have a grown up son and many nephews and nieces but I’d never met a kid like his before. Although I could see his behaviour was a little odd and he was spoiled I put it down to being brought up by a single man who had never even held a child before he had his own. He had no idea what was normal and what wasn’t as well as being over-indulgent as he also felt a bit guilty that his ex didn’t want her own son. My partner got him when he was 6 years old as she couldn’t tolerate him any longer and when she remarried the kid did all he could to break up the marriage. History was to repeat itself with me.

Unlike your partner, mine was very willing to let me take the lead on parenting and was very willing to be helped and guided. I tried absolutely everything and all it did was to make his kid try and control me. It isn’t until you live with kids like this on a daily basis do you realise how all-consuming it is, not only on your time but also your vigilance. You always have to be one step ahead.

The symptoms you describe are classic right down to the hypervigilance, wanting to know your every move.

I have posted recently about Dr Essi Viding, her results from studying children are in the resources section and also information from her will be in my previous posts, you may like to read about it.

The condition is highly heritable and in my partner’s case his ex has an Antisocial Personality Disorder but never diagnosed. His brother has Narcissistic Personality Disorder and the kid has a “bad cocktail of genes” from both sides of the family.

I’m pleased to hear that you have got away from the stressful relationship, there is nothing you can do to make a difference to these people so it’s best not to waste another minute trying.

My partner’s son went back to the ex recently and our life starts now because with the kid around it was not possible.
Dr Viding said if one person in the family is sick and they can’t be cured then it’s best to cut them loose or they will make all the other members of the family sick.

I wish you well now you are away from the problem-don’t ever be tempted to go back.

Regards
Jan

Hi Jan

I have just checked out your post describing your visit with Dr. Viding. Long before I realized that my partner was a big part of the problem, I started checking out information on behavior disorders in kids and when I came accross RAD, I felt like I had finally found something that applied. I started trying to figure out why she would have this condition but nothing seemed like enough to explain RAD, as the articles I read seemed to be saying that it is caused by severe neglect or abuse in the first year. Still, it seemed such a match that I thought, somehow, something must have gone just wrong enough…I was convinced it was RAD for a long time. Time consuming oh yes, even though I never lived with this girl I would find she occupied my thoughts almost constantly, although I know how crazy that would sound to most people. I can't even imagine living with her. "You have to stay one step ahead." At least.

The comment that if Ps are given everything they want, they are not nearly as disruptive registers with me. Little P was always on the prowl for some item and if she got it, things could be quite OK for a while. This applied equally to non-material stuff. She was well known for phoning round the neighbourhood early in the morning, asking to speak to the mother of the house and then demanding to know what “we” are doing today. People felt sorry for this little kid with the sick (and later dead) mother and usually tried to come up with an offer. She would call several people, pick the best offer and then ring the losing candidates and back out. If her plans worked she was happy, if not, trouble. My boyfriend let her do it. Sometimes he claimed not to know she was making the calls, which I believed at the time, not now. People in our community when crazy out of their way for them, one woman I know ended up talking to a therapist after she started having marital problems over how much attention she was giving this family.

Another thing I keep mulling over is what are the chances of two P’s being able to sustain a 20 year relationship? One of the reasons I thought my P was a good guy, despite evidence stacking up to the contrary, was that he had been married to the same woman for 15 years, been with her 5 years before that, and stuck with her throughout a 3 year illness. Then I heard strange reports about this woman. Kind of started to make me wonder because there’s no way I could have lasted with this guy for 20 years. I was verging on insanity when we finally split. He claimed their marriage was good but when he described a lot of things, it didn't sound good to me. Could the two of them have found a symbiosis?

Hi

I'm fairly new here. Does anyone know how to change my name that appears in the side bar? I was trying for "Kate3" and ended up as "3".

Also, does anyone have any insight into these:

I am not exaggerating when I say there were easily 500 pairs of socks in the house (3 people) not to mention the 3 grocery bags full of odd ones, which he kept in the closet in case their mates showed up. When I tired to make a joke of this one day, he was EXTREMELY DEFENSIVE and could not see ANY HUMOUR in it at all. He was the same with towels.

Looked at bargain food shop flyers every Saturday for “deals” and absolutely packed his freezers to the point where he had to throw out the boxes so that it would all fit. When you looked inside it was a mass of frozen processed food in cellophane wrappers. No labels, dates, nothing. This past Christmas he actually dug down to the bottom for some reason and found a roast from 1997.

His mother seemed really uncomfortable around him, like she didn’t want to offend him. Ditto his sister to a lesser degree.

Allowed the dog to use the basement floor as a litter box. He insisted that the 13 year old clean it up (as a chore), which of course she rarely did. Result – it sat there for sometimes days at a time. When you went in the back door the smell knocked you out in the summer. He sometimes used having to pick up dog poo as an excuse not to do planned activities. There was nothing wrong with this dog physically as when I babysat her at my house, she was totally toilet trained.

He told me repeatedly that his mind was always busy, that he was always thinking, 100% of the time. He also claimed that he slept only about 4 hours a night on average and that this was normal and OK for him.

He could predict what was going to happen on a television program or in a movie with amazing accuracy.

Claimed that he never smiled. This was sort of true. Once I started watching, he really didn’t.

Claimed that most people weren’t quick enough to keep up with him, that much of what he said “went over most people’s heads”. He was referring to “jokes” that he made. Out of the blue, he told you something that was kind of weird, but could be true. The joke was when you believed what he was saying. He would get irritated that you hadn’t “gotten the joke”.

Strongly identified as an aggressive person and was very defensive whenever someone spoke negatively of aggression even in a theoretical way.

I am really interested in what has been written here about the way a P views sex. My P seemed like an addict! He had 3 girlfriends and apparently had one night stands too.

I didn't have sex with him for the first couple of months of our relationship. He slpet in a bed with me a couple of times and although he was very keen for things tp progress (and pushed it so I felt mildly uncomfortable) he didn't actually try and force me. He always went on about how rape was the WORST thing a man could do- perhaps one of the only true things he ever said!

After we started to be intimate I found things a little odd. He didn't seem to want to enagage in any kind foreplay just sex. When we had sex I never felt like we connected in the way I thought we should. I thought about it a lot but in the end I decided he was just different to my ex and that I was being paranoid.

A few months in I had a few health probs which meant we could not have sex as often as he wanted. He became quite nasty. One night he said I never wanted to be with him and if I was going to be like that he was going to leave. He was ready to get up and leave the house at 1am because I would not have sex! (we didn't live together). In the end I gave in. Another time we had friends round. I'd been in hospital and could not have sex for 3 weeks. Half way through the night he said he felt frustrated and so wanted to go home to watch porn and he'd come back later. He did come back but I thought it was odd. I always felt like a failure because I couldn't satisfy him.

He always wanted to have sex in risky places (I've since found out he had sex with other girls in my car!) I am not saying that in itself is strange (apart from the other girls in my car!). A lot of people like something exciting in their sex lives but I would have thought it should be mixed with more emotional loving sex but he never seemed to want this. He would not look at me or tell me he loved me when we were initimate. He once told me he'd been a sex addict but then after winding me up and saying he'd had therapy for it said it was all a joke!

The image of a doll strikes a chord with me. I think he just wanted to use girls for his sexual gratification with no regard for the girl and with no connection between love and sex. He always said loads of other girls fancied him to me and his other girlfriends. I can see he prob wanted to keep us in awe of him but what is strange is he used to say it to his male friends as well. If a girl looked at the group Dev would always say 'she wants me' and if she talked to another guy he'd try and move in on her. It's like his whole life was based around sex and people wanting him!

I just wanted to get a few things I have been thinking about our relationship off my chest really!

Liz

I can relate to the risky situations bit. My guy would often try to get things going when the children were around (school age children and a young teenager). They weren't in bed, or even on another floor of the house, usually just in the next room. Other strangeness in this area was the way he liked to put his hands around my neck, like choking I guess. This wasn't my idea of a good thing. Also pinching. Hated this more than the choking actually, as it really hurt. Arguments where he had managed to make me feel really bad about something seemed to be a real turn on. He actually showed up at my house at about 9:00 with his daughter one night after such and argument and kept after me for about an hour before giving up. He also seemed to have a higher than normal drive as he could perform (to completion) 3 or 4 times in the space of a couple of hours. Could be wrong, but I don't think this is the norm for a 45 year old man. The agression involved was what I noticed as really unusual. As far as other women go, no evidence that I ever found, but then we were only together 2 years. I think there were many secrets left to be discovered had I stuck around.

This past Christmas he actually dug down to the bottom for some reason and found a roast from 1997

Yum!

Hi kate3,

I will add my two cents (during the weekend) to your question about the chances of 2 Ps being able to sustain a 20-yr relationship.

In short for now, the answer IMO is yes. I've witnessed it.

I'm sorry that you had to deal with a P, possibly two, and glad that you're out of the situation.

Sylvie

Hi again,

I know a couple who I believe both have psychopathic personalities. They dated for about seven years before they got married.

For about the first thirteen years of their relationship, the guy's antisocial behaviour was more visible and it seemed like the female was frustrated with him, his irresponsibility, and apparent lack of logic when she tried to reason with him. Funnily enough, along the way, the female exhibited antisocial signs of her own, but I think we missed them because we were in denial and his behaviour overshadowed hers.

As long as I've know the guy, he's always talked about money, schemes, and been a braggart. Basically, insufferable. A few years into their marriage, he got wind of a fraudulent scheme and got both of them involved in it. Long story short, they've both been actively scamming others (including some relatives/friends), made lots of money, and their relationship seems to have noticeably improved. It's as if now that they've pooled their antisocial "talents" and victimized others, they've found common ground and created synergies. Ugh!

In fact, on CNN the other day, a commentator was saying it's becoming more common for these Psychopaths to work together in their criminal activities! <img src="http://www.psychopath-research.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Sylvie

Hi Sylvie25. I, too, dealt with a psychopath couple. Seems that they feed off of each other and use each other to torment others...all part of their sick game which they take great pleasure in playing. The husband would call and warn me that his wife was "planning" something and then would make threats that I needed to meet with them or something bad would happen. Anything they can do or say to manipulate people into their wicked world, they will do. Sad, pathetic, jealous people, p's are.