Just curious if anyone knows if any of the P's in their life were born premature.

My P was born 2 months early and was apparently hospitalized for 2 months before going home.

He was also hospitalized at the age of 12 months for a long period of time. [I am not sure how long]

Hi Heather, I don't know the answer to your question. I believe in the "nature" aspect leading to Psychopaths.

Do you have any way to confirm if this is even true or is this something that he has told you? I am curious because no one is better than playing a victim than a Psychopath.

How did he tell you this, was it as a way to explain his way out of a sticky situation?

Di

He sure likes to play the victim in any situation.

Now you have me thinking... I assume it was true but maybe he is using these things to make himself look like a victim. He makes all sorts of claims against his mother, child neglect, abuse, abandonment. His own mother doesn't like to be around him now. It seems to go in a circle, was she abandoning or reacting and was he awful to her or was he really abandoned?

Hi Heather, Consider the fact that a Psychopath can lie as easily as most of us brush our teeth. His mother not wanting anything to do with him could be that she is aware of his situation and sick and tired of being conned by him.

Personally I wouldn't believe a word he said. If I were a betting person, I would bet his mother has just tossed up her hands on dealing with him. Who knows how awful he has been with her and how often she has believed his lies and cheating? That must be a horrible effect of having a P child if you get calls from innocent victims.

Perfect victim actions from what you have said, poor him, horrible mom, yada yada. Also one thing to think about is if he says his mom is so horrible it minimizes you being in touch with her and if his mom doesn't meet you he doesn't risk his mom spilling the beans about what a jerk her son is?

Di

Hi Heather, I just joined this group a couple of days ago and this is my first post. I think that you received an excellent answer from Dianne. I am the Mother of an N and she described my feelings exactly. In answer to your question, N was not premature and did not have RAD. N also claims abuse by us~well, that's one of her stories. One is that she was raised by her grandparents, one is that we raised her and abused her, the other is that she raised herself. Even a Mother can only take so much pain and abuse until they're finished. Also, I'm sure, just like Dianne said, that he doesn't want you and his Mom to talk.

Hi Jammie, welcome to the forum. Do you have any contact with your child/adult?

Somewhere here on the forum a victim reported that the Psychopath in her life had told her that his mother was dead when in fact she was alive and well.

It must be a real heartbreaker to be a parent and come to the realization of what your child really is all about. I hope you find some comfort in this life and realize that there is absolutely nothing that you could have done for any different results. It must be extremely difficult to close the door to your heart on a child you raised, but I have never heard of any kind of change or hope for improvement, help will only make them more cunning.

That in a nutshell is the irony of dealing with a Psychopath, they really know how to play the victim card while finding a way to suck in their victims and in many cases take something out of the victims lives that can never be returned, trust and ability to trust. About the best advise that any victim can get is to get on your track shoes and run as fast as you can away from these evil beings.

It is quite common from all my years of reading stories from victims that breaking away is very difficult. It can be a process and many times a victim can go back with the P again and again, P's are extrememly convincing and very quick with the lies. There seems to be some sort of "spell" for lack of better words that a Psychopath seems to cast on their victims.

I hope you can share more of your story when you are able to, Jammie.

Di

Diane, thank you so much for your response. My hubby and I are not in contact with the N and it's by her choice. We've been away from her for nearly 16 months now and it's absolutely wonderful. The torment that we feel is the fact that we had a very close relationship with our grandchildren. We saw them nearly every day and babysat half days. She, of course in true P fashion, is using them against us and refuses to let us see them. She hates us and it seems like she's been that way since she was very little. She never had the admiration that small children feel toward their parents. We lost any sort of parental control over her by the time she was 2 or 3. She had quite a temper and a violent streak. When I'd try to lay her down for a nap, she'd pull my hair and pinch my face and head for my eyes. When my hubby would discipline her, she'd threaten to turn him in for abuse and we knew she'd do it, too. She always said that spanking was illegal and we didn't want to take the chance of being investigated because that's when they started prosecuting parents for spanking their children. So she had the run of us for 31 years now. But it's so strange now that she has children. She has a targeted child and does not hesitate to spank him for the slightest things. I guess in her mind the laws have changed.

jamiee

I relate to your experience with a troubled toddler> I still remember the day I GAVE birth to my daughter 14 YEARS ago. There she was so beautiful, so angelic, so peaceful, and then she woke up.

Perhaps it was the fact that she was my firstborn, but from her very first infant baby screaming, something scared me from the very start, and I didnt know what it was. Yes she was the only infant in a shared ward that was screaming in a frenzied manner, and in a tone which by the facial expressions from the other mothers slightly scared them too.

On reflection it was almost like from the start this little bundle of joy was already throwing the orders around, and it was my job to respond al pronto or else.

How proud I was of this little bundle of joy. I felt like a child again, when santa would come through the night and leave me wonderous presents. And here she was the life I had created with the man of my dreams.

There was the normal feeding problems. At this time she appeared to be like any other baby. I was suffering post natal depression (undiagnosed at the time). And Life began to change. Life with her father began to take a turn. And not for the better.

I loved and I nurtured this little tiny soul. Life was not pleasant on the homefront however, but she remained (i hoped unaffected by the dramas that had begun).

Her development was slow, she was slow to walk and slow to talk, but she could smile, and she could laugh. My mother visited us from New Zealand, and at this stage my daughter was in the tantrum stage. Only these tantrums were frightful even back then at 18 months old. Mum had raised us her 11 children and also helped with her 63 grandchildren, but when she witnessed my daughters tantrums she became extremely concerned, as she had never seen a child this agressive. Time out and consequenses had no effect on my daughter, none. Mum didnt know what was wrong.

Life continued however, but at this stage the environment was worsening (including my undiagnosed post natal depression). My daughters behaviours at this time 2-4 years
were increased violent fits of behaviour. But I noticed not often around her Dad. There seemed to be a quiteness about her that I found difficult to actually communicate with her. She was able to display laughter. But one thing that always remained clear was that she wanted her own way at all costs. Discipline such as a smack on her bum, from removing her toys, all these efforts seemed to a complete waste of time and effort.

Her brother was born, and I was very rudely intorduced to sibling rivalry. My daughter hated him on sight. That hate continues today including her other sister who was born.

My daughter was violent towards her siblings. The one event that sticks out the most, the tv was viewing the news on the Mike Tyson ear biting fiasco. Result Daughter decides to practice this on her brother. She bit his ear until it bleed. Luckily his ear stayed on. And i knew then and there that we were in trouble she showed no remorse only a deeper hatred developed because he had got her into trouble>

Homelife for all concerned was hell. Her father would take the nightshift in raising hell, and my daughter would take the dayshift. Grade one the teachers were concerned about her learning. I was also very concerned, She also used to scream in a frenzy whenever she was in a shower, when she would hear sirens, and certain neon lights she would respond in fidgetty manner. Her eye contact was also limited. After many tests, the top paedritician in the state could find nothing wrong with her.
he quoted "I believe you that there is something wrong but I DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS" The school has diagnosed her as intellectually impaired. This confused me to no end as she had the head of a genuis when it came to manipulation,lying and getting her own way. And no one could explain to me why she never displayed any sign of remorse. At this stage I was receiving councelling into the trouble at home.

By the age of 8 she had broken windows, smashed her room up,
would sneakily attack her siblings, thrown a tonka truck at my head (man that hurt)AND THE tantrums were now escalating
where my only choice was to sit on her until she calmed down. SHE was also hurting herself> in these fits. Her talking was nothing short of verbally cruel (probably learnt).

After leaving her father, her violent fits at anyone who got in her way continued. Her friendships never lasted for long as every one she came into contact with became very scared of her.

Her special education teacher refused to believe me that she this beautiful (and she is a real stunning girl)was capable of such violence. She was a little bit slow to learn, but i was obviously making this story up. That is until she attacked one of the head teachers at school. She violently attacked this woman with a chair because she didnt want to go to a reading period. And the teacher had it coming, telling her what to do. She was not sorry. She
did apologize to the teacher but it was only done so for the benefit of herself in getting back to school to do the more interesting things she enjoyed.

She attacked one neighbours daughter who got in her way, it took myself and IM fairly solid< and another man to pry her off the top of this girl> she had it coming too>



learnt)

3 BOYS on there way home made the fatal mistake of teasing her. Result, the first boy was thrown in front of a moving vechile, the second boy she held him up on the wall by the throat and smashed him, and the third boy she broke a discarded empty bottle and run around the 7 11 chasing him down.

I got my daughter into therapy, in which her physchatrist diagnosed her with multiple undiagnosed disorders. Another therapist worked with my daughter for an intellectual impairment.

Homelife was the normal walking around on eggshells. And watching her like a hawk so she wouldnt hurt herself or her siblings. No such luck the mayhem continued. Her therapist recommended protective services come in and support me as i was now pregant with my 4th child (not to her father). There support was swift I was warned if Dahnei hurt this baby or her siblings they would take the children away. My baby arrived, and she hurt her sister by twisting her arm and slamming her head in between a window. On advise I decided to relinquish her to protective services, only they wouldnt have a barr of it. I was told even though I was a good mother (and they did investigate me) there was no where for my daughter to go because of her intellectual impairment, so the solution was to some and take the other children (who have no behaviour problems) and my 3 month old baby and foster them out.

After numerous calls to my member of parliament, the media, the child and health ministers and disabilities, I was able to obtain information on the legalities of abandonement. Which I did or should say was forced to do to make sure the rest of us were not destroyed. Protective services were supportive in my predicament and took my daughter in.

Shes now being gone for a year, presently in her third foster placement. The prior 2 she created havoc. She had visits home for the weekends. After her first foster placement failed, (and they had no where to put her ) they sent her back to me to look after her until they had another placement. she was at home for a month until she picked up a carving knife and stabbed her brother, in the hand. I was monitoring her so I was quickly able to disarm the knife from her. The police picked her up where she lied to them and told them i had tried to kill her.

a couple of months have passed, and it was her birthday, i put on a little party for her, protective services let her come, and once again the mayhem continued.

I havent spoken to her for 4 months, a piece of me is just so fed up. Im still in 2 minds as to whether to contact her.

READERS I KNOW THIS IS A TOUGHIE AS THERE ARE SO MANY CIRCUMSTANCES HERE. I DONT KNOW WHAT IM DEALING WITH. I HOPE SHE IS NOT A PYSCHOPATH, AS ALL OTHER DIAGNOSES CAN BE HELPED. Feedback is greatly appreciated.

rosie

Hi Rosie, welcome to the forum. Thank you for all the details, I just wanted to let you know that I have some questions/comments as soon as I finish my evening dog walks

Di

Hi Rosie, what a sad situation with your daughter. How old was she before you left your X? Sometimes I think it is possible that kids can repeat behaviors if they are around a Psychopath yet not be a true Psychopath themselves. Obviously I can't offer a diagnosis but your situation sure sounds like it was there from the beginning and has little to do with the behavior patterns of your X.

I hope Jammie can provide you with some first hand knowledge from her experience with her P daughter. Your stories sure have a ring of similarities. They say the conscience is formed around 3 - 5 years old ( I think it is closer to 3). It sounds like things escalated at that point?

Every state or country has a different age that it is possible to get a diagnosis, do you know what the age is in your country?

Di