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#6622 - 02/06/08 05:56 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: ]
Segaya
Unregistered


My dear Pinky friend.....
I am so proud!
I knew we connected, but that it is on so many levels I couldn't know.
I see you as a little girl, feel what you are telling. And it makes me angry, Angry on all the people that hurt you. Angry at so many people who didn't see you or even recognized you are a person!!!

Still this is going on....grgrgrg

If they only would know what they miss out on!!!

Maybe what I am about to say won't sound nice and maybe you won't like it at all. But I can't help myself I have to ask these things...;

You say that your brother and your sister are Psychopath's...But what about the rest of your family...How is it possible that your parents let all these things happen?
Leave your child to sleep like this, no place to even dress or comb your hair!!!

I have 2 sons.... I couldn't do anything to change my Psychopath son..but I could certanly protect my other son!Did I always prevent things happeing to him...I guess not, but he knew he could come to me and tell me and then he would be protected.

Once he told me that he was in his bed sleeping, and woke up and saw his big brother ( 8 years older) standing next to him with a fist straight above him...
He never slept in his own room again. I put him on a bed in my room, the only bedroom with a lock. I locked the door and kept the key with me. ( in my bra, making certain my Psychopath son couldn't get it no matter what!). Later when I went to bed myself I would lock us inside.
In daytime my eldest son was dangerous too, so if my youngest son was in the kitchen ,I was too. If I had to go to the toilet my little one was with me.. as he has to go I was in front of the door watching him all times.I was buzy all day to protect him. That was the only thing left for me to do. I was to ill already to stand up to my Psychopath son most of the times. I let him go his own way. Do whatever you want and don't bother us!!

What I want to say is; How come that your parents let everything happen? And still it's like that....

Still everyone seems to tread you like a servend( hope I spell it right)...Why??
But the biggest question of all is;
Why do you let it happen. They can only boss you around as long as you let them....
They can only only hurt you , as long as you let them....

With other words..Girly girl; Stand UP.

I thank you for sharing this. It means a lot to me that so many people seem to have the seem experiences I had and came out as strong persons. I don't see this happening often. Most of the time I see people who stay a victem and won't have it any other way.
Here I bump into people who will chance it! Who are strong and willing to find a way to get out. Not a little bit out,... no, completely OUT.
It makes me so happy to read between the lines that you and also others, are such great women.
This way we are able to strengthen each other . It's beautiful to watch this and see it happening....

hwhaw I wanted to end this posting but I forget something.
No I don't play.
I can't play also. Don't know how to and my condition won't let me.
The bad thing is, and I noticed it with my own children but also with my grandchildren, I don't have any idea about toys and how to use them. I don't see the fun of it and always will buy the wrong things..terrible huh?
So I asked my ex- daughter in law, to help me. If one of the children's birhtdays is coming on, I will phone her and ask what to buy. This way I can do something nice for the little boys and realy surprise them...
So there is a problem less in my live... I feel ashamed for it, but at the same time i know why this is like it is...So no blame for me there..... But it's just not nice not to know these things.
I am so happy because of that , you are able to play and on top of that have a husband who understands the necessety of playing for you. It is realy importend to play... So my dear friend take your time..And next time you play I like you to invite me, and teach me how to oke... Then we will play together!
Love Segaya

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#6645 - 02/15/08 11:17 AM Re: General Discussion [Re: Dianne E.]
ruspr Offline
member

Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 1
Hi. I'm new to this forum & hope that sharing my story will help me understand my brother & heal from all of the trauma he has caused. I have to say that I always knew somthing was off with him, but could never completely admit it to myself. There were times that he has been kind & it's always been hard to let that go. Anyway, here's his story. He has been in & out of jail most of his adult life (he's no in his 40's). He has always been a liar & thief, stealing from me & our mother and anyone else he could. He has been involved in 1 scam after another & feels no guilt over those he has hurt or the shame & pain he has caused in his family. His treatment of my mother has been deplorable. She has had problems in her own adult life, being hospitalized for depression for a year after a suicide attempt & then was an active alcoholic until after my brother & I were adults. I left home as soon as I could, but he stuck around & used & manipulated her as much as he could. It would take me all day to say the things he has done to her. He forced her to let him live at her home, along with his boyfriend, by threatening to tell her workplace that she had been arrested for drunk driving & was driving w/ a suspending license. He is gay, which means nothing, except for the fact that instead of dating men his own age, he in only interested in teenage boys that he can manipulate. He always lies about his age, by 10 years. He had one boyfriend try to kill him over a money dispute. In my heart of hearts, I wish he had succeeded. He is incredibly cruel & unfeeling. He cares for no one but himself. He got my mother involved with his latest scheme, which he is currently in jail for. He used her name to open phony bank accounts & when he was caught, she lost everything she had worked her whole life for (& honestly earned. As I said, I could go on forever what a horrible person he is, but what I truly want is to understand how someone can become like this. He truly feels no remorse for his actions, saying only that he can't let himself feel guilty b/c it will make it hard for him to move on. He feels no shame, no embarrassment, nothing. If I did a 10th of what he has, the guilt & shame would kill me. I need to find a way, to not forgive him, but to at least move on with my life. It makes me sick to think that we share the same blood. Any advice or insight would me much appreciated. Thank you

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#6646 - 02/15/08 07:13 PM Re: General Discussion [Re: ruspr]
Segaya
Unregistered


Hello Ruspr,
First I want to welcome you on this forum and say we are always glad if somebody new has find the way. Not that this is a good reason to look for help, but if needed this help than it's a relieve to find it!

When I read your story I see a lot of things that will bother you a lot. Seeing, knowing about his actions has to be so difficult! Watching how he involves your mother in his sceems, and the younger boys in his live......ppfff. Do you live in the same area he is in? That would mean people know about him being your brother , but probably not that you are so different....

It will be hard for anybody to do anything about the fact that you need insight or advice how to move on.
Nobody else than you can do this. Only you can make the disicion to go on living. To be honest; This is what it is exactly ; YOUR desicion.... Change the focus in your live....oke, it's easier said than done.
It means understanding that there is nothing that will change him. Nothing can give him the information that is needed to become a normal human being. There is no treatment, no medicine, no cure...nothing.
Realizing this is very hard, life changing.. It's al about giving up hope for a future that will be better. It's about respect also..Respect because he is a grown man and has to make his own desicions, his own choices..No matter what you or anyone else will think of it.
It means you have to go on,That is; go on without the help and support of your brother.
This is hard, like you have to cut somebody lose ....But it's the only way.

I hope you are not in a big shock reading my answer. There is a lot to say about this subject and we will talk more if you wish.....But realizing this as soon as possible will help a lot with rizing above this troubled live..and will give you a head start.

Greets Segaya

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#6648 - 02/16/08 02:49 AM Re: General Discussion [Re: ]
jan36
Unregistered


Hello Ruspr

You probably found this forum because you were looking for support and have already made some decisions to move forward. So I think you have already made the first few steps to move on. You have recognised who your brother is and what he has done and you haven’t taken any blame for his actions.

Many people with experience like yours look to see if they were responsible for the other person’s action and thereby take the blame.
You know that your brother will never change inside but may pretend he has to manipulate you so you need to be strong and ignore this if it happens. Hopefully you won’t have any contact with him in the future. No contact is vital if you want to move on. Many victims deal with this by treating the person as dead and for some a grieving process takes place. Grief for the loss of the person who might have been and the sort of brother you would have wanted and loved.

It really helps to write all your feelings down and if you feel comfortable posting it on the forum then that is another way forward. You can also read how other members have found ways to put the past behind, it never goes away but you have somewhere to ‘park’ your problems. There is great comfort knowing you are not alone with your experiences and others understand you.

There is always someone here to listen to you.

Regards
Jan

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#6661 - 02/27/08 10:25 AM Re: General Discussi [Re: ]
Lady Crown Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/07
Posts: 56
 Originally Posted By: Segaya


You say that your brother and your sister are Psychopath's...But what about the rest of your family...How is it possible that your parents let all these things happen?
Leave your child to sleep like this, no place to even dress or comb your hair!!!

What I want to say is; How come that your parents let everything happen? And still it's like that....

Still everyone seems to tread you like a servend( hope I spell it right)...Why??
But the biggest question of all is;
Why do you let it happen. They can only boss you around as long as you let them....
They can only only hurt you , as long as you let them....

With other words..Girly girl; Stand UP.

Love Segaya


Dear Segaya,

What happened was my parents let this happen because it was easier for them to make me pay the price and not have to deal with my sister hectoring and berating them. I was the one who always paid and went without. She did what she wanted, took what she wanted and they let her get away with it. They never did without, it was always me. And they let it happen. Not only that, they worked on convincing me how "lucky" I was to have this happen to me. That was the worst part, the mind games, the twisting of reality. They were the parents; they should have beaten her senseless rather than give in. But I guess it's easy to give in when you aren't the one paying the price, your youngest child is. That kind of selfishness and lack of feeling is too much.

As to why you let it happen, that kind of hurt my feelings. You have to understand; I was the youngest child. I had nothing. I had no one to help me. My brothers were indifferent, my parents gave in to her. My aunts and uncles blamed me because my mother told them it was me causing trouble. I had no one and nothing. I wasn't allowed out of the house, no one would take me on a simple errand, I was the only one who couldn't drive, I had no money. All I had was my cat, and everyday my brother would tell me that I would come home one day and the cat would be gone. He was going to drop him off on a highway somewhere. I used to run home from school in terror to get there first before he could do it.

So it was never an issue of "standing up". I did. I protested each time and each time was blamed for causing trouble. Causing trouble by wanting a room to sleep in, a bed, a mattress (yes, my brother took that too), permission to use a mirror, permission to walk through a room, to keep my pet in safety, to be allowed out, to get to go out, anywhere. I was the only one hit, the only one deprived, the only one blamed, the only one who had everything taken away. There was no possibility of standing up because I had no rights and no power. If your parents are in on depriving you of everything, you can do nothing about it. They are the ones who should have stood up to her and forbade it, but they did not.

And yes, it is still going on. As an adult, what I did was take anything I owned out of that house as soon as I could before they could get to it. My library, my pictures, my cat's bell. I didn't leave anything behind that mattered to me because I knew it would disappear. It's still going on with my mother giving the house and all its contents to my brother who hasn't worked a day in his life. It's still going on with my Psychopath sister desperately trying to get what she wants no matter what. It's still going on with my mother ignoring how I feel about anything and expecting me to be happy that she is giving everything to my worthless brother, who won't even make her a cup of tea.

But she wants me to come over and clean the house THEY live in. Yes, I am a servant in their eyes. I always have been. They want me to be. Somehow it satisfies them on some sick level if I come over and scrub and clean and work (by the way, I am disabled), and they sit around and "supervise" me. My brother has been living there for thirty years now and has never worked, doesn't clean, doesn't shop for food, doesn't cook, and has never contributed any money for utilities, food, gas, nothing. My mother is elderly and her health is suffering this year, and he should be taking over the errands, the cleaning, the cooking. Believe it or not, now that she is unable to drive and rather confined, she wants and expects ME to come over and clean, cook, food-shop, run her errands, take her wherever she wants to go, get the car serviced, pick things up, and everything else she can think of. I am disabled, and yet she is telling me how she wants me to come over and scrub the walls and clean the windows for spring cleaning, after I polish the furniture.

Years ago, I suffered two accidents that damaged and then re-damaged the vertebrae in my neck. I was at school at the time. When I called my family, they wouldn't even come to see how I was, and never arranged for me to have medical treatment. Consequently I have had cervicogenic headaches for the last two decades, with little warning as to what will set it off. I have limited mobility and constant pain. Yet, my mother wants me to scrub the walls with a mop, clean the floors, wash the woodwork, polish the furniture, move the furniture, go to the store, library, and anything else she can think of. Then, to top it off, she constantly tells me that she wants to spare my brother because he is "so tired" and "does so much". He won't even make her a cup of tea! The house is a mess and undusted, unswept, crowded, messy. Once I offered to come over for a couple of hours and dust and sweep her sitting room which she was always complaining about. She told me I had to wait until my brother thought it was okay to do on his "schedule". I go over to check on her and her medications and he is sleeping on the living room couch, which is apparently the only "schedule" he has.

The ironic part is that growing up I wasn't taken anywhere or taught to drive, so I get lost easily even now. My mother is mad at me because I am afraid to drive somewhere unfamiliar to take her where she wants to go. I never dreamed that when she was unable to do what she wants that she would actually expect me to pick up the pieces. But I should have known she would. She made me pay the price for what my Psychopath sister wanted, and now she expects me to do it with my brother. She won't make him do it, she expects and wants me to do it. I must be very stupid to not have seen that she would do this.

I have to issue a side note to Jan as well; no, my husband has no brothers, but I wish that he did so I could clone them all and send him out into the world. If you don't mind hearing a paen of praise, I am so so lucky to have him for a husband. He is the kindest man that there is, and more so, he is a man. He has come home from work to find me trying to cook dinner while crying with neck pain, and stops me, pets me, puts me on the couch with pain medication and tea, finishes cooking, or gets takeout. He protects me from my family and keeps a careful eye on what I do, keeping me from following old conditioning and doing something I shouldn't, or that they should. He absolutely forbids me to do anything for them resembling servitude and has a very clear head about what is appropriate and what is not. RIght now he is watching all this and holding his tongue, to keep any backlash from hitting me, but he is very brave and will tell them to their faces that they are cruel and selfish, and exactly what he will permit to go on and what not. He makes it very clear to everyone, especially the Psychopaths, that he is standing between them and me, and that he is very much aware of exactly what they are and what they are doing. It really is a sight to see. Consequently, they are very wary of him.

Coincidentally, he suffers from headaches too (migraines) and we have eked out a kind of system where we both cook and clean and shop and run errands, doing what the other one can't due to pain. Okay, he can't make a casserole, but you should see him with red meat!

He found me when I was frightened, lonely, and very ill, and he taught me everything. How to drive, how to shop, how to defend myself, how to spot traps that my family set, how to differentiate reasonable requests from exploitative ones, how to stay one step ahead of the Psychopaths. He taught me that my feelings mattered, that I was worthy of affection and respect. He taught me how to protect myself, and most of all, to put myself into the equation, that it mattered what happened to me and how I felt. He taught me to love only the people who deserved and returned it, and not to waste time on the others. He taught me standards of treatment and behavior, and that people who loved me would not have done the things they did. Of course, I loved him before any of this happened, because he was so cool and fun and smart, but he's been everything good to me, things that I had never dreamed of.

Segaya, I wanted to put in a picture of a doll, but I can't paste an image. Rats! I'm sorry that this turned out to be so long; I had a minor crisis the other day where my Psychopath sister called me and upset me very much. I told my husband I don't even want to hear her voice for a while, and he said "you can't", so he is going to step in to give me a break. I wish I knew what it was like to be fearless like him....it is so admirable to watch. I don't really play with my dolls (okay, I do brush Barbie's hair), but I mostly have the collectible ones for the pretty dresses and outfits. My husband got me Barbies because he knew I had never had them, so the only way to "play" is just start out by buying yourself a pretty one (that's why I wanted to send you the picture) and start by just enjoying having it. It's yours, it belongs to you, and mirrors a good feeling about yourself, that you are pretty and girly and worthwhile. Barbie represents all of that to a girl of any age, (despite the current trend to denigrate Barbie dolls). That's why the collector dolls are so popular. First you admire the outfit, then enjoy owning her, then you start to feel a bit more girly and pretty. Then you buy the pink label (inexpensive) ones so that you can brush the hair! Everytime I look at Barbie Princess of England (fabulous pink velvet dress!) or Barbie career Pet Doctor, I feel happy and prettier. It's a long long road back from being made to feel ugly and stupid and boring; if a little plastic doll in a great dress helps with that, let's go shopping!

Sorry again to everyone that this was so long...stay well in pink, Segaya girl! Love, Lady Crown

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#6662 - 02/27/08 04:11 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Lady Crown]
Segaya
Unregistered


Dear Lady Crown,
My heart breaks.......
You really think for one moment that I wanted to make you responsable for what happend to you as a child???????????????
Ofcourse not!!!!
I think you read some of my own experiences and there is again this 'strange' simmalarity;
You wrote; 'it was easier for them to make me pay the price'
As my mother use to say.. 'as long as he does it to you he will leave me alone.....'
So please take it from me.I will never ever blame a child...
I read your story before and it made me angry...Not angry at you... You are my girly pink friend..no way I will be ever angry at you...It made me angry about what they did to you..... How is this possible..again...and I said it to Sapphira also... it's making me speachless..( and take it from me...that says a lot!!!)

I just can't stand it...I see it happening before my eyes ..This little innocent girl that wants to be loved..simple..nothing big, nothing much , nothing spectacular...just soms kind attention.....This simple thing is not only refused..... on top of it all....grgrgrgrgrgrgr and again it makes me so helplessly angry

I know too well that we didn't learn the normal skills to live in this world..and nobody understands it.. They don't see the struggle because we are afraid to show it, talk about it, or even ask for help..People will laugh about it behind our backs.....So why hide... stay indoors, don't make contact with other people and if we can't stop the contact we stay in the back of things.......

It's so little we needed, so little we asked for..... even the normal things seem to much for us already..so we didn't even think of asking for that!!!

I indeed said those things for the NOW. And again not because I am angry or something like that at you... I am agry because they boss my girly pink girlfiend around..are they grazy!!!!
That's why I said..stand up for yourself.. Let your husband teach you well..learn please learn....You are worth it... YOU are the most importand person in your live..I said it before and I will repeat myself a million times to you if neccessary....YOU deside what you do or don't do. Take life in you own hands and stand up, take charge, make the right choices for YOU. And yess, let you husband help you ( can I order a clone now?)

I am so sorry to hear that you are disabled also..( we all seem to be, don't you think so)
I know people with the same thing you have and I know there is a lot of pain involved...
Sometimes I get somebody who asks me for help and I will always try to help them heal but I can never promisse anything. What always does happen is that there is more relaxation therefor less tension, less dizyness, and also less pain....
I am really sorry for you....But I say it again...it's the more a reason for you to take care of yourself..They don't feel your pain, so why should it stop them ???? It's your pain so you have to stop this to go on...I know..it's easier said than done..But don't blame me for saying this over and over again..One day you will really hear what I said and all the times before that is the work that needs to be done to let that happen....
I will not get tiered to tell this...I will not get tiered to hear all the things you want to share and again...I won't get angry at you..Why..there isn't anything that you do wrong, or have to defent yourself for... What i see from you is all in love and kindness.. You are a wonderfull person and who knows..maybe one day we will meet.. in spirit we met already... that;s for sure.
Love and always with you AND in pink!!!
Segaya

(Hope this; me being angry with you....or not understand you.. is out of the way now)

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#6663 - 02/27/08 04:25 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Lady Crown]
jan36
Unregistered


Hi Lady Crown

That husband of yours sounds like heaven on legs! You are so lucky to have that kind of support and hopefully this forum will help some members that don’t have that additional back up. It’s great to hear of something so positive.

Can I be honest and say something you might not want to hear?
Why do you have anything to do with these people that treat you so badly, it’s not good for you? You are the most important person in this scenario.
I get the feeling it’s because you are too kind and don’t want to hurt anyone but you deserve so much better than their despicable treatment. This is the hardest thing to say…..but are you hoping that maybe things will be put right and you will get the genuine apologies that should be forthcoming? Sometimes we just have to let go of the things we really wish would happen because I don’t think these people will give you what you need to change the past.

I don’t usually tell people what to do BUT if I were you I would just give your husband all your time and thoughts and not give your family a minute of it. Also give yourself a lot of attention-my goodness you deserve it!

You don’t have to be the dutiful daughter when brother is there to help your parents.

I think you have found a great therapy that really works for you so maybe we all need to think about what works for us. I really admire you for being so open about it, it’s so refreshing.

It may be difficult for you but I would really be interested in seeing your husband post on the forum to see how he feels about your situation. He is one in a million and could offer some insight in how to help others to cope with such trauma.

I don’t feel I have to worry about your future as you have such a great insight into what has happened in the past and such a wonderful support structure to keep you moving forward.

Just out of interest-is your husband in a ‘caring’ profession?

Regards
Jan

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#6664 - 02/27/08 10:29 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Lady Crown]
Sapphira Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 92
Dear Lady Crown, Segaya, Jan,


When I read your post I can feel that you are such a caring and giving person. You give of yourself with such a high standard. It's amazing how pure a heart can be amongst such empty ones. The thing is we are taught to be so selfless. But more than that, perhaps we almost take on the responsabiity to make up for the goodness that isn't shown us. Instead of being 50/50, it becomes 95/5. Certainly in part because it's convenient for them to have us believe that, and perhaps because they take advantage of our good and/or innocent natures. What child doesn't want to please it's mother. What child at risk doesn't strive even harder to appease, please and otherwise try to ensure some peace. But as you say, it is very deep and very thorough conditioning to be selfless, to be a servant, to give of oneself without return. To 'give' of our SELF...becomes to 'give up' our self. What self?! Our sense of self is as the servant, without, not entitled, unloved and unlovable, because we weren't allowed to discover any other way to be our SELF. OUR self, it should be.

When I go over this dicussion, as I have been all day, I keep thinking about when we hit those limits inside ourselves. We push ahead, go so far, then hello again, a new one. I feel - I know -I have come so very far, and then I meet another. I dreamed a while ago - actually I've had this dream twice since I started being with myself in the big empty - about a dog that sits in a cage. The door is open, but she can't get herself to leave. She can't even get herself to want to leave. All instinct to RUN!! and get the hell out of there, it's all gone. All that push and strain and on the edge of the world to get out. All that feels like another person. I'm out. And now I dream of this. I pat her. I hold her. I even carried her out. But she's still limp in my arms.

When I think about it, I realise that my 'out' today is not the same 'out' of 20 years ago, or 5 years ago. 20 Years ago my out what a very physical and immediate one. Now my 'out' feels to me, in some ways, perhaps like yours??...I can't reach out for myself. I know I ought to, and there are periods when I can, but there is a part of me, much like the dog, so close to freedom, who just can't reach out, or take herself out to get it. Who is stopping her having what she wants now? What she is entitled to have and ought to grab? There is no longer a chain. She's no longer a dependant puppy, the door isn't even locked anymore. There's no one else to face now, just herself. For me now, just me.

After 15 years with the same old computer - that I work from 5 hours every day - I finally decided to 'treat' myself. I bought a new one, and a new printer. Two months later and I've still got the old one on the kitchen table because I haven't got the new one up and running properly. The new printer I bought is out of the box but I can't get myself to set it up. Just one of so many examples. Others so much smaller, more everyday. In some ways I almost have to laugh at myself, it sounds so...something! I just can't reach out and take what I know I deserve, what I know I am entitled to. Because on another level I just don't feel I deserve it. By that I mean it just doesn't feel like part of who I think I am. In my mind I'm the one who always went without. I'm so deeply terrified that if I get anything it will somehow just be taken from me, so don't think for a moment I 'have' something.

It's very hard because sometimes I don't know how to reconcile the difference. I just try to tell myself that it's new and I have to fight to do for myself even though inside it just doesn't feel 'me' or that I am entitled. One thing to lift the dog out of the cage. Another thing for her to get up and run around and herself enjoy the freedom. But I trust that it will come.

What strikes me over and over is the lack of what I would call maternal instinct they showed. Not protecting their babies, not guarding their space and sanctity. Instead letting the wolves in the door, flaunting their little ones, allowing injustices. And the whole family seemed to be in on it. Like you, I was the selected one, who got all the abuse in private, but also the scapegoat for the whole family. My grandmother told me she was actually afraid of my mother, really afraid. She knew that the massive temper tantrums she had as a child just wasn't normal. She knew something wasn't straight and she used to say, well, as least it makes her good at her job. But whenever I'd run away and call her for help, she'd just send me right on back. As a teenager I asked her why she tolerated the abuses and never stood up to her on my behalf when she knew what was going on. Her reply was that no matter what, she was her daughter and her loyalty would always be with her. I felt so betrayed by her, because she knew. She had a conscience - or at least I thought she did...hey, maybe I was wrong there. But it amazes me how dozens of people who all knew what she was like, sat back and let it happen. I know a lot of people were very intimidated by her. Perhaps I underestimate how it may have been for someone to stand up to her, especially when she was younger and such a formidable presence. Maybe it has to do with fear? And the knowing that there had to be some one who was going to cop it. And when that person was no longer available it would be someone else. Better you than me, because if not you then it might be me. I guess, at the end, I was her responsibility, and they didn't want to take that on.

There is a dream I've has since a child and what you have been saying today reminds me. (Sorry, this is all over the place. I hope it makes some sense!) There is a mother at the top of a flight of stairs, holdng a very little baby. Then suddenly she just lets the baby go. For no apparent reason. The mother doesn't flinch. She just stands at the top of the stairs and watches as the tiny one...to the bottom. It is so desperately painful to watch. As she falls my heart is already breaking. When I get my legs to move I rush to the baby. How could she not be dead? I get to the baby. She's not dead, but she's not a baby either, she's a doll. She's become a doll. I pick her up. I hold her tight. The pain of breaking isn't so unbearable and not so overwhelming as it would have been. This I can carry. This I can hold and keep going with. Any other way I could not.

I realise theres no connection really with what you were saying about the dolls, with what's been said, but it makes me feel a lot when I read what you posted - thank you.
Love, Sapphira


Edited by Sapphira (02/28/08 02:51 AM)

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#6665 - 02/28/08 03:39 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: ]
Segaya
Unregistered


Hi Jan, Lady Crown And Sappirha
Jan, I think we say the same things at almost the same time... Only you have more tact than I have!
As usually I get ahead of things..
It is indeed important I think to find out why we still keep doing things we know in our hearts is not good for us! Do we really think the Psychopath's will change who they are? Do we really still search for there approval( ooo this language thing!!!)and love?
What keeps us from taking care of ourselves.... Take the advice of others who understand and want to help....
At the end of the day the only thing we have to do is stop what we are doing.....Just turn 180 degrees and go our own way....
If only it was this simple....
I am so happy with all the response on the postings..

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#6666 - 02/28/08 04:15 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Sapphira]
Segaya
Unregistered


Hai all,

Sapphira what you write is so clear.
The image you give about the dream you had of the dog is so heartwarming.
I do think you know that the dog is you..A dog is loyal, like you, One can kick it and still it comes back to lick one's hand...You can put the dog in a cave and still it will be happy to see the one who is giving the punishment.
Take time... At the start, beginning of this, you will do all those things with your head. And later, with practise, you will find that you are doing it from the heart. with love.
Take the dog out every time you visit the big empty ( that's not so empty anymore already now!!!)
Let the dog get used to it's freedom bit by bit... At first he will stay close to you and at one moment he will snif around while sitting on your lap...than it will stay close to you ,even touching you while drinking some water,and then he will get a little bit further..bit by bit he will learn to know what freedom means.. Once knowing a little bit you will notice the dog is learning fast!!!

The same thing with your story about the baby.... How visual you discribe this ....
You are the baby you are catching!!!
You aren't a doll , but you are used like one....Like you didn't even matter. Same thing with Lady Crown, myself and so many many others.
I think this is exactly what Jan and I keep saying; Take care of yourself..YOU are the most important person in your live..... And look at those 2 dreams! you are!!..But be patient and kind to yourself..that's part of learning isn't it!
I remember how this fase in live feels, How difficult it was for me...Indeed we are like babies.
What do we really know...What of this knowledge is real and what is valse.
We are like baby's and we do have matternal feelings we can use to take care of that baby inside..( the little girl in the big empty space is the same thing...)We are patient to teach and let it explore herself ( the baby inside)
This has a very good side to it!!
We are baby's...this means we can start from the beginning with everything!!! We can make this life into something wonderfull.....
tell me..How many others can do this? Have the knowledge we have, have the skills we have....Have so much love and patience and are so open for all the good there is??? You are so right;...Almost nobody.....

Other people don't even know they are missing out....And take it from me... They also suffer in they're own way!!!( or think they do)

As I read about your new computer...I remembered again....
What I did was; I just did it with my head... Not feeling that it was mine...or even that I deserved it... I started to use it and slowly I got used to it... And much later I started to like it and after that I coul be happy with it... First it's only in the head, mechanical...and in time it goes down to the level of feeling... This is really a learning thing...It's not 'normal'( What is for us??)It doesn't come natural. Even those things have to be learned......
But... I am so happy you bought the computer..It's a real big step in the right direction!!! Be proud!!!! And if it's to early to feelproud of it, I will be proud for both of us...
For you till you can feel it yourself, for me..because I know that if one of us makes a step in the right direction more of us will follow, but most of all because there is a connection between us and I know where you are comming from.. GO GIRLLLL!!

I am again surprised of the skills we have or develope to cope with all our problems...
You with your dreams and so... Lady Crown with her dolls..It gave me some inside of my own skills I used in the passed. Forinstance the image of the little girl and asking myself what she would need.... I see a simmalarity again but I can't put my finger on it yet!
Maybe one of you can???
Lots of love, Segaya

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