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#6778 - 03/24/08 06:18 PM Re: General Discussion [Re: barbara]
jan36
Unregistered


Hello Barbara

I’d also like to welcome you to the forum. Please feel free to write as much as you need. It is easier for us to offer support if we have a lot of information about your situation. You sound exhausted and at a loss to know what to do for the best.

Whether your ex is a psychopath or not you need to follow your gut instinct and look out for your son and yourself. How old is your son? I presume he is at an age where he can tell you if he has any concerns about visiting his father and that he would make it perfectly clear if he didn’t want to go.

Do you know the woman your son spends time with? I would want to know a lot about any person a child is with. She may also have problems with her new husband but has not discussed it with anyone. On a positive note she may make your son’s visit more comfortable but I do think you need to have some sort of contact with her directly.
I don’t think you have anything to gain by having anything more than basic contact with your ex about your son’s visits. He may use your son as a weapon if there was something he wanted. Have the courts ordered the visitation rights that are currently in place or is this a private arrangement between you?

Unfortunately we are not able to make any sort of diagnosis but Lady Crown is right when she says to look at Dr Hare’s psychopathy checklist that will give you a good indication if you suspect that is what you are dealing with. If you need any help finding this information please let us know and we can send you the links.

You may find it useful to read how other people on the forum have dealt with similar situations where children are involved. Often the children make their own minds up about whether or not they want to spend time with a parent but don’t want to cause any more problems for them. Has your son got anyone else he can talk to about the way he spends his time with both of you-a grandparent, aunt or uncle?

You are obviously feeling very stressed at the moment but has something given you more cause for concern than usual or is it just getting confirmation of your ex’s lies that has set your mind wondering what else might be amiss?

I hope we can offer you support while you are trying to deal with this situation. You sound like a very strong, capable person so I think you will find a resolution to your problems. On a personal note-I do hope that if you do find a person you want to be with you will not let your ex destroy that. That is a huge red flag!

I look forward to hearing how you get on.

Regards
Jan

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#6779 - 03/25/08 02:49 AM Re: General Discussi [Re: Lady Crown]
jan36
Unregistered


Hi Lady Crown

I read your posts and feel so pleased to see you gathering strength. You mentioned visiting your father’s grave and was wondering what your relationship was like with him. How did he fit into the family dynamics? How long have you been without him?

I hope you don’t mind me asking these questions, it’s just that I would like to have a fuller picture of your childhood. I know sometimes one parent chooses to keep the peace and not challenge what goes on in the family, is this what happened in your case? I presume you have some good memories of your father or you would not be visiting his grave. I do hope so.
After all the bad memories from your past it would be good to know there was something positive you can look back on. Meeting Lord Crown must have been one of them.

I’m constantly amazed at how thoughtful you are and that you took your mother a book at Easter and pleased you were able to take the gift and not fall in with the family games. I get the feeling that they are beginning to be a bit unsure of how to deal with the person you are becoming. Some time soon I’m sure the balance will tip and you will be the person in the position of strength and you will carry on in your dignified way.

Good luck with your genealogy, is there any way you can ‘help yourself’ to the albums and information your mother has without letting on? I wonder if you will turn up any other personality disordered people in your family.

Regards
Jan

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#6782 - 03/25/08 05:55 AM Re: General Discussi [Re: Sapphira]
Sapphira Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 92

Hi Jan,

I've tried to edit an old message I posted and I notice there is no edit facitility. How long before a meassage stops being able to be editted?

Many thanks,
Sapphira

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#6783 - 03/25/08 06:52 AM Re: General Discussi [Re: Sapphira]
jan36
Unregistered


Hi Sapphira

As far as I'm aware there is no time limit on editing a post so I'm not sure why you have encouintered this problem. Is there any way I can do this for you if you are still not able to do it? Perhaps give it one more try to see if the problem has resolved itself. The only thing I can think it may be is if you have logged out or been kicked out due to a failed internet connection.

Let me know how you get on.

Regards
Jan

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#6784 - 03/25/08 09:54 AM Re: General Discussi [Re: ]
Lady Crown Offline
member

Registered: 11/19/07
Posts: 56

Hi, Jan.

No, I don't mind the questions at all, don't worry. My relationship was both bad and good. Unfortunately, he drank, and when he did, I was the only one struck, chased out, blamed, etc. My whole life I was told that he drank because of me. I was the youngest child, and named after his mother. He was a very sad and anxious man, didn't go out, didn't have a single friend, was treated like dirt by his father and brother, and was very unhappy. He drank to relieve those feelings and to try to sleep. I know I can say this here on the board...he slept in the basement, and whenever we heard his foot falling on the lowest stair, everyone scattered to their bedrooms. That left me, with no bedroom, sitting there with no escape, and he would start questioning me as to where everyone was. So he always came up to an empty house (except for me). I don't know if you've ever lived with an alcoholic, but the endless repeating of the same questions over and over and over is terrible. You have to always say the right thing, and they are paranoid, so they keep checking to see if you're lying.

It fell to me, thanks to my mother, to make his sandwich for work, pour out his tea, and wake him up for dinner. That meant I had to creep down to the basement, couldn't turn on a light, make my way to the door of his "room". It was just a section of the unfinished basement with a bed in it. I would feel my way past the furnace, and head for him. I had to stop every few feet and call him. No answer. Go a few more feet and try again. I was always so scared and sick inside, and I could hear everyone upstairs getting ready for dinner, and there I was standing in the dark, terrified and shaking inside. Finally he would call out and I would say, "Dad, dinner's ready." He would mutter something, and I would have to wait, and then ask, "Are you going to eat?" because if I didn't, Mom would send me back down. Then I was allowed to escape up the stairs.

Every day when I came home, I would look for signs. All alcoholic's children do this, I know. At the front door, I would check to see what lights were on in the house, because that told me if he were up or not. Go straight to the kitchen and look at the left counter, to see if the drink was there. How many are left? Is that glass that he drinks from out? All the things you have to check to keep yourself safe. He's been gone since 1987 and I still find myself doing it.

He was such a nervous wreck that we couldn't make noise, or drag a chair or bang things. Everything was centered around keeping him quiet and non-anxious. I bore the brunt of this because when I wanted to do anything, he was used as the excuse for me not to be allowed. You can't go mail a letter, you don't need to go to the store, don't ask Dad for a ride, etc. He was afraid of everything and got mad if I wanted to do anything that would make him nervous (like leave the house). I had a part-time job working at a movie theatre a few blocks from the house. Most of the time I would walk home, but a couple of times he picked me up. He told me to stay in the lobby until he came, which I did. This one time, he pulled up at the curb, and he was drunk, and I stepped out into the street and the car. As soon as I got in and locked the door, he started yelling that I was standing on the street, and started beating me. I couldn't get out of the car, and he kept hitting me until we reached home. I jumped out and ran into the house and straight into my mother's room. She kind of hid me in there and when he came in, told him that I had not been standing in the street. He slunk off downstairs and stayed there. All she did was tell me not to tell my brothers! Instead of anyone going to him, and saying, "this will never happen again!" It was dropped like it never happened, and no-one did anything to protect or stand up for me.

So that's what life was like. I was a nervous wreck, and trapped in the house, without even a bedroom to escape into. My mother (kindly - sarcastic) said I could come in her room and sit on an 8-inch footstool at the foot of her bed while she watched TV or read. That was lots of fun (sarcastic again). Thanks, Mom. I don't really know who kept the peace; Mom constantly had us keeping him quiet, and everything revolved around him, so on the surface she did, but after his death, I was shocked to discover that nothing really had changed. He was gone, yet the selfishness, the lies, the cruelty went on.

The things I can't understand, and that enrages Lord Crown, is that I got hit, yelled at, blamed, but my lazy brothers who wouldn't even take out the garbage, got nothing. No criticism, no yelling, nothing. And the main thing I can't understand is that this man, who was treated like dirt by his father and brother, let the exact same thing happen to me. You would think that he would come down like the wrath of hell on my Psychopath sister for treating me like dirt, instead I was the one struck and blamed and stripped of everything. I will never understand that. Before his death, he said to me that my Psychopath sister was just like his brother. He should have been beating her senseless, why me?

Now, the good things. Beyond the drinking and the beatings and the hell, he was a very sad and fearful and kind man. He could have been something great. He was unable to go on vacations with us, but always endured us going, despite his fears. He never bought a gift or went out, but paid for everything we chose. He was generous and funny and wanted to be loved so much, but never felt it. Why he let my siblings develop into monsters, I don't know. I would talk to him about history and Irish geneaology and whatever family stories I could glean. He told me things about his family and his mother that no one else ever heard, probably because they didn't care, got to go out, and avoided him. I couldn't avoid him, but when he was sober, I did enjoy talking to him. I was shocked when I was 17 years old and found out that he had a brother, living 30 minutes away, whom I had never met. All he said was, "He wasn't kind to me". He would have loved geneaology being on the Internet and I wish I could have shared that with him. Plus he let me get my darling cat, and when my mother objected, he said, "She already has it in the house, and it's staying." I always begged for a pet, and didn't get him until I was 18. He taught us to swim despite being afraid of the water, and I would buy him souvenirs and books because I hated that he was left behind in the house. He never went out, as I said, but once when I was working at the movie theatre, there was a double feature that he really wanted to see. I arranged for him to come to the theatre, swore that no-one would bother him, kept open a special seat for him right by the door in case he needed to flee, kept the surrounding seats empty, and he actually came! I brought him in right past the ticket line, took him to the seats, got him popcorn and a drink, and he made it through the whole first movie. He couldn't stay for the second feature, but he did get to see the one he wanted. That's a good memory.

Jan, you and Lord Crown need to talk! ;\) He too plans on me "helping myself" to the albums, as long as it's a time when it's safe and non-detectable. He hasn't figured out when that is yet, as apparently my brother has them hidden in the attic, but he's got his sharp eyes open, and an unbeatable sense of timing!

I hope this wasn't too unbearably long, it just kept pouring out and it did me good to write it. Thank you, Jan. Sometimes I answer questions that I think are dealt with, and then while writing it, I am horrified at the description of what I went through. It's like seeing it a different way, and thinking, "that's appalling!". You are right, they are beginning to be unsure about what is going on, they know there is a change, but they don't know what that is. Of course that means the pressure will increase for me to be the other way, but that's not going to happen. Still no mention of the album or Easter. More invisibility pressure. But it's not changing how I feel, and it's not going to be okay that it happened. Thank you for your constant encouragement. Pinky hugs and love,

Lady Crown

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#6786 - 03/25/08 05:00 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Lady Crown]
Segaya
Unregistered


Dear Pinky Girlfriend...

Your posting give me several smiles.....

No, I didn't know you were Irish but....
I was looking for a queen doll and had to find one with a nice crown.
I saw this one and went on looking for another...came back to this doll and went on again... And finnaly dicided this had to be the one..I was drawn to it .
It doesn't supprise me at all though. And yes , your Lord Crown is right...sometimes I do 'know' things but it's not very conciously. Like this..I was drawn to it three times and I know then it's the one I want you to see...But I don't know the reason...
Like with christmas..I did know then you were having a bad time..But I don't go any further then that. You have a right on your own private live and it is not for me to enter that without you knowing this. I struggle with this for many years already for I want it to develope but I don't want to intrude in peoples live..You understand? So I just leave it like that.


You have to know I live in a attached house with quit thin walls. My neighbours at one side are not nice people..He thinks that he can intimidate me and she is a know all..... Now, I know he sleeps very light and wakes up with there is a sound....
I was reading your posting in the middle of the night and when I read about the socks and to name them I was laughing like I didn't for quit a long time... I swaer; I woke that neighbour!!!
Now I am wearing my Lady Crown and Sapphira!
To name them is such a nice way.... I have to put them on now because having you two close is so special.... I have two pairs..The black ones are Dianne and Jan now ( hope that thats oke ladies??? no insult ment) And the white ones are Lady Crown and Sapphira !!
My feet feel nice and warm now and I am not used to that so that way you are always on my mind..nice isn't it..And always very close!!! Thank you for that very, very good idea!!

The geneology is close to your heart . The way you talk and tell about it make that very clear...About Prussia; I know it is part of Germany. There were two Prussia's..east and west and it depends on where your families origine is if that Prussia is still in Germany or is now in Poland..( by what I understand so far) The old Prussia was near the Netherlands .My family comes from the side of Holland that borders Germany so ...who knows!!

Anyway I know that it is tried to make my families history but nobody finished it... They got stuck..so if you finish with yours I got a challange there for you!!!

I was realy shocked about what you are telling about the event with the book you brought to your mother. But, it makes me so proud to read how you are handling it. Wauw you are strongggggggggggg..........
And please take courage; Keep doing this. Don't react, don't give them any more ammunition!!!
It is so hard at first not to tell anything, not to share..because inside we keep hoping they will care somewhere..But...they don't and we keep on making ourselves so vunerable.
Is there a change that your Psychopath sister comes to your house or is she too smart to come? ???
( does the being there of your lord will hold her back?)

Thank you for your translations I love them!!!!
Hugs and lots of pinky love Segaya.

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#6789 - 03/25/08 05:33 PM Re: General Discussi [Re: Sapphira]
Segaya
Unregistered


Dear Friend of mine,

You struck me.
'My mother was essentially a thief'... pffffff. This is something!!!
You put your finger right on the spot!
Why didn't I think of that discribtion??? Thats exactly how I would discribe my 'mother'......
She stole everything from me indeed. Not only material things..I didn't care about material things ever. She stole who I was to become.. My feelings, my selfimage, my trust, my love, my kindness, my selfrespect, my safety, my creativity, my talents my possibilities....my health, my taste for food, my joy of live, playing, kidding with others, sharing, be part of a group of people, my brothers and sister, my family ,me being able to feel welcome.... she stole it all............
I got most of it back, but it was so hard work and so much of hell to go through before I had it back...( as said; mostly)
And you discribed it all in that one sentence................
I have to let it sinck in and probably will come back to this another time....

Yesssssss I am exited about the singing...But are you sitting???
I use to dance!!

I can't anymore because my heart is to weak now. I just finished my dancing dress ( the edge of the purple dress measured 13 meters...)when I had my last heartattack. After that I tried to dance for several months but I had to let it go.
I started dancing when I was 12 and was invited in a club for the youth. I was asked to teach a group of girls to dance for the carnival ( is this how you call it? november 11 and in february he festivals are) I refused;I didn't like the festivals and didn't like the way they use to dance on them
A week later he offert me the same thing but he spoke to others and they decided that I could use the building every week for dancing lessons and the board would pay for clothes and music and everything. So there I was ; teaching girls from a bit younger than I was upto the age of 20/21 years old...If somebody didn't listen to me ( they thought it would be easy to boss me around) this man stood up, looked them in the eye and that was enough to keep them in order.... I had a great time those years and won a few prizes.
The man even went to speak to my parents to let them agree for me to do so. They didn't want to...but they didn't want anybody to know how this family was living. They didn't want any suspicion , not from him or anybody else, so for they're own sake they had to agree.
Till this day on I still don't know of this special man ever knew so much was wrong in that house!!!

It took me 3 years of grieving before I could finnaly accept (!!) my dancing time was never to come back. After that I had to find something else. Deu to me not being able to speak for the last 5 years I started with the singing. And now for the last 2 years I am the singer of a band. We started a new band just last november and we have 25 songs now already..We have lots of fun and the 3 other members, all men, are happy with me being they'r singer!!
The 4 hour drive you have to make every time you godancing says it all doesn't it!!!!
May I ask what kind of dance you are doing? Is it sacred dance? Please take time oke, if you don't want to tell it's oke also...
But...agian... our lives are so very, very simmilar!!!!
With lot of dancingand singing love Segaya

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#6790 - 03/26/08 01:58 AM Re: General Discussi [Re: Lady Crown]
jan36
Unregistered


Hi Lady Crown

Thank you for the information about your family background, it really gave me a better picture. It certainly wasn’t too long. It reminded me of the book Angela’s Ashes, not that there is a direct comparison but just written in a similar way. I’m pleased that it allowed you to get angry writing about it, that is therapeutic, maybe I should ask a few more questions

How sad that your father had suffered too but wasn’t able to cope and needed to drink to escape from the situation. You obviously had glimpses of the man he could be without alcohol. You didn’t mention his mother, your grandmother. Did you know her or know anything her about her?

What did strike me is that the psychopathic members of your family did not try to control your father, do you think this is an example of psychopaths being confused by something they can’t control?

I have a little experience of alcoholism and know how irrational alcoholics can be, anger is one of the emotions that are liberated along with lack of inhibition. The two together are not a good combination. Did your father beat you just because you were the one who was there not like your siblings or would he have taken out his frustrations on them too if they had been in reach? From what you say you have always been a caring person and looked after your father unlike your siblings who were not around to absorb his anger.

I do hope you get the information your family are withholding from you. No doubt they know how important it is to you so will do anything to cause problems getting it. They know how to pull your strings with this so if you could let them think you have lost interest they may let their guard down and you might get the opportunity to ‘help yourself’. This is a very similar to what I’m going through at the moment but it’s not an issue relevant to psycopathy, just a belligerent ex withholding every photo, video and personal possession of mine. Anything with any emotional value he has taken and refuses to return. He told the court they are no longer in his possession so they can’t enforce him to return them. Included is the only video of my late father and my uncle’s war records and memorabilia and all the records of my son growing up. He can keep all my crystal and jewellery and anything else that can be replaced, I’m not interested in possessions just memories.

Keep the family on the back foot-you are on the right track.

I look forward to hearing about your grandmother. I forgot to mention…my grandfather was from Cork.

Regards
Jan

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#6791 - 03/26/08 02:03 AM Re: General Discussi [Re: ]
jan36
Unregistered


Oh Segaya

You did make me laugh! I’ve never had a sock named after me before, what a claim to fame as there are not many of us in the world who have that privilege. In fact there are only 3 others to my knowledge. It’s odd you chose me to be black, nearly everything I wear is black and always have. I rarely wear anything with colour. It’s not a reflection of my mood I just prefer it. I’m not very girly which is probably a reaction to being dressed in pink as a child…..I feel so sad that something as simple as that has left you and the others feeling cheated and I didn’t want it. It is so humbling and I don’t want to sound trite when I say that. You may not be able to translate the word trite but I mean clichéd. Children are so easily hurt and damaged and as good as my mother was and still is, she once said something to me when she was angry and I remember it to this day and it hurt. What you and the other ‘socks’ have endured must be a million times worse and I only have a glimpse of how you all might have felt.

I did find it very interesting about what you were saying about Prussia, I was aware of how the border of Poland has changed over the centuries. My ex’s family were from that border of Poland so my son will have a connection to that area. It would be fascinating to find out if your family and Lady Crown’s have any common history.

What I do admire is how you are bringing life, fun but also practical advice and therapeutic techniques to this forum by having a deep understanding of peoples needs.
After what you have endured it wouldn’t be at all surprising if you had a lot of venom to spit but all I see is a very positive outlook. I would like to use my experience of living with a kid with psychopathic tendencies to help others. I know it is very different for me because I was an adult with no emotional issues so started from a very different place.

You haven’t mentioned your sons for a while, is that because things have settled a little?

Regards
jan

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#6792 - 03/26/08 04:56 AM Re: General Discussi [Re: ]
Sapphira Offline
member

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 92
Dear Segaya,

Ahh! Well, I guess I ought not be surprised, really. But wow! I can imagine you in that lovely purple dress and I bet your were a very graceful and yet spirited dancer:)And I have to smile when I think that even back then you were leading and lighting the way. I bet there are those who will remember you and the teaching you gave and if you ever came across each other they would know who you are.

I feel so glad that there was one person prepared to stick up for you, even thyough he didn't know the full picture. It's reassuring to hear of such people and to know you had some guardian at least.

When I imgaine you as a child/ becoming young woman dancing, I have a sense of you with such freedom, and it doesn't surprise me that you did so well. Knowing what the dance gives I can imagine some of what giving it up must have been. Such a deep painful wrench. That it took three years is totally understandable. Ah, it makes me wonder about sometimes, the way Life somtimes gives and then takes. Then I read the elements you listed that had been stolen from you - just how much had been taken - only to hear you say about what you have got back. I read what you wrote, as it was written, in a line, and I had such a need...I hope you don't mind. I just needed to see, well it's hard to say. Do you mind if I write what you put like this?

My feelings

My selfimage

My trust

My love

My kindness

My selfrespect

My safety

My creativity

My talents

My possibilities....

My health

My taste for food

My joy of live

Playing

Kidding with others

Sharing

Be part of a group of people

My brothers and sister

My family

Me being able to feel welcome

I just needed to look at what you wrote to consider each. Because what you say is true. These aspects were stolen and had to be fought for to regain. And these are such SIGNIFICANT facets. And I cried when I considered the loss - of just a few because there is so much in each, I need time to consider more. How easy to take from children?! How different the losing from the recovery!! Thank you for saying Segaya. For me, I can say, she stole parts of my life from me, but I have not yet got to the point where I could say as you have just what exactly. So I will sit with your words too.

And thank you for understanding that I may not be ready to tell about the dance yet. (If I could whisper it to you I would.) Just feel a bit unsure about saying otherwise. I will get there, though.

I also just wanted you to know that I was extremely happy to see your post. I want you to know that it meant a great deal to me to hear from you today - thank you:)

Know that I feel the similarity even if I don't know it in the details that need time to reveal. We started dancing at the same age, too! It amazes me, when I recall the impression what you have said about your singing has made on me and how much your zest for it has really encouraged me to make the effort, even fight, to get back to the dance. I love the idea that nothing is ever really lost - and your translation from dance to song is proof. It was really something to me that you sing as you do. Even more inspiring to know that it is a triumph of reclamation from another form! I feel proud of you and happy for you and excited because you show there is a path of renewal and hope. You are a shining star!

Lots of love,
Sapphira





Edited by Sapphira (03/26/08 04:58 AM)

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