>>>Where can I more documentation on that? I really think that the way that P made my head spin was that way. I started being interested months and months after those bombs were placed<<<

http://www.rickross.com/brainwashing.html

I have read so many books on brainwashing techniques, that I can't come up with any right off the top of my head. However, the book Captive Hearts, Captive Minds is a great book to read, but can't remember if it goes into specifically the sleeper time bombs. I think I have read most about post hypnotic suggestions, in books concerning, cults and multiple personality.

PS. Any books by Key on Subliminal Suggestions, does a great desciption on how our subconcious works, and how suggestions can be implanted there.

Betrayed.

**edited to make link clickable, Di

>>>were you the obsessive type before<<<

I never was, until this happened. My thoughts raced so much , it was as if my brain hardly moved before. LOL

I talk to a lot of P types, picking their brains, and they all tell me that this racing phenomenom is how they normally think, but it does not disturb them, as it does us. One P's wife tells me he plans ahead so much, he knows what he will wear and do three months from now.

Betrayed.

betrayed,

>>I talk to a lot of P types, picking their brains<< Aren't you scared? Their brain running fast makes me thing that it is probably as I overdose on coffee. I, yes, after spending an entire day with P, that is how I had the impression the P brain was working. I was also told that he never manage to finish was he started because he is already thinking of something else.

Dianne
I believe I understood correctly it would be okay to repost this. I always want to be respectful of the guidelines here. There has been alot of discussion on obsessing so I retreived this old file. I'll understand if you delete it. But I think you said it was actually okay. . .

Note, as long as we only use brief portions and cite the source. I have linked the source at the bottom, thanks, finished, Di
Thanks always
finished

I found this information on another web site a few weeks ago and fortunately had not deleted it from my file. It is in regards to obsession. I was so GLAD I still had it. I'm going to copy it here. It helped me so much when I read it and seems timely now

As copied from another web site:

Hi Everyone. During the 'dark days' of the N situation I was literally obsessed with thinking about the Ns in the family I married into. I could not stop. My emotions were bouncing all over the place.

I had an opportunity of having a medical student stay with me for two weeks while she was doing an elective at one of the local hospitals. She did a rotation in Pediatric Psychiatry. She told me she had interviewed a 15 year-old girl who had tried to kill her own father. The patient was completely lacking in empathy, she actually thought there was nothing particularly wrong with what she had done. She was diagnosed withAntisocial Personality Disorder.

The medical student found that she developed obsessive thinking about this patient. She could not get the patient and the whole situation out of her mind. I talked with her at some length about her obsessive thinking and my own situation and it helped me to see that this phenomena is much more common than I had thought. If this medical student could develop obsessive thinking over the interviewed patient, then I who was smack in the midst of coping with my NH and his son had the same problem.

I decided to run a medline search and came up with the following. It seems the good news is that once we
demystify the N situation (which can be accomplished by reading and learning as much as we can) that we then experience a lessening of the 'obsessive thinking' problem. I hope this helps some of you come to terms with what we all seem to go through and will validate your own experiences. Also, you will note from the excerpts I have copied from the abstracts that attempting to 'not think about it' actually increases the problem.

Address for medline searches - I used the parameters of 'obsessive thinking'

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?SUBMIT=y

According to recent research, deliberate suppression of unwanted thoughts may result in a paradoxical
increase in their frequency. White bears and other elusive intrusions.

Assessing the relevance of thought suppression for obsessional phenomena.
> Purdon, C. Clark, D.A. Behav Modif 2000 Jul;24(3):425-53

Research has shown that attempts to suppress a thought can cause an increase in the frequency of the
thought. These paradoxical effects of thought suppression play a key role in cognitive-behavioral models of
several emotional disorders. Paradoxical effects of thought suppression: a meta-analysis of controlled studies. Abramowitz JS, Tolin DF, Street GP. Clin Psychol Rev 2001 Jul;21(5):683-703

It is proposed that obsessions are caused by catastrophic misinterpretations of the significance of one's
thoughts (images, impulses). The obsessions persist as long as the misinterpretations continue and diminish when the misinterpretation weakened. A cognitive theory of obsessions. Rachman S. Behav Res Ther 1997
Sep;35(9):793-802

The White Bear reference seems to be the name of a psychological questionnaire used by psychiatrists to
determine obsessive thinking levels. It does get better with time and with understanding the whole N problem and its significance and impact in our lives. So, the upshot of all this is to read and learn and try to
cope with the problem and understand it fully.

(REPLY 1)

I would guess it takes a lot of time for cognitive restructuring to take place, and the thinking and re-thinking
helps with minimizing the misperceptions and aids in assimilation of "the new knowledge. I really like the proposal: "It is proposed that obsessions are caused by catastrophic misinterpretations of the significance of
one's thoughts (images,impulses). The obsessions persist as long as these misinterpretations continue and diminish when the misinterpretations are weakened."

That makes sense to me. I had people tell me to just stop thinking about it, but I had to think about it until I was comfortable. The better I understood it, the less stress I had. Obsessional thinking really helped.

One thing I say to explain my obsessional thinking is that my experience with my female N was such a
catastrophic failure, that I was forced to do a failure analysis, are-thinking of the events and my misperceptions. I wondered how I could have made such a blunder in life. It took a lot of thinking to fix myself. I do not want to repeat that lesson.

FINISHED speaking here. It seems like many of us are in this place as described above. I liked his way of thinking "forced to do a failure anaylisis. So practical and a positive way to look at it. So he won't repeat the lesson. That works for me so well. I am a problem solver. Once I know WHAT the problem IS. . .then and only then am I in a place to begin to correct past mistakes! I think this is encouraging!

(REPLY 2)

Am I ever glad to have read this thread! I have been trying for months to "thought stop" and to "get over it. I have been having obsessive thought about the N and the other woman, playing and replaying fantasies
based on my anger and rage at the N.

(REPLY 3)

Thanks to all of you for your posts on obsessional thinking. I am only now becoming enlightened and just in the past 24 hours have received so manyanswers to the questions that were plaguing me. The biggest question I had was about myself: why was I obsessed with this person? I engaged in crazy obsessed behaviors (driving by his house to see if he was there or had another woman over). My thoughts were so preoccupied by him that all other areas of my life suffered. I kept trying to resolve conflicting information.
Over and over, he was all I thought about. I have only now gotten the answers I need so have not yet extricated myself from the situation.

(REPLY 4)

That big hump--it's there for everyone and it is overcome in each persons unique timing. I want to make sure that no one here in the early stages of this process thinks that they need to begin practicing forgiveness....NO NO NO...embrace your anger, vent as you need and use it to empower you to escape

Me speaking now:

I found it validating that getting the information and processing it,comparing behavior and communication dealt to us by P's helps demystify it so we can move on. . .Guess this is where "it gets worse before it gets better" applies.

finished

Source: Obsessive thinking...

Oh Betrayed

>>The P hung many of the things in our store, by nooses. Exactly the kind you see in the movies, where people hang themselves<<

What a henious P you dealt with. An ABOVE and BEYOND henious P.

>>after talking with the P who was down there working, and announced to the owner and one of the sales people that I was dead. That I had died of a heroin overdose. They just shook their heads, and laughingly told me about it later.<<

>>deliberately implanting the sleeper cells, although I was familiar with it from reading about cults<<

I'll turn your mind around. . .I know it'll take time. . .

>>The sleeper bombs, which can contain all sorts of messages, sometimes contain suicide implants,<<

Are there books out there that teach people these techniques? If so I see why they would have to "target". The "target" would be like a "guinea pig" to experiment with their new mind control skills.

>>All these little pieces, had to be joined together to make sense, some of them were months or years apart from each other.<<

I described in group one evening that my life resembled that of one of those "plate spinners". You know those jugglers that have these plates spinning on the top of a pole. They will start one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. . .get all the plates spinning at once. Then they have to run back and forth to keep all of them spinning at once.

Point. . .each plate represents a part of my life. This P experienced blindsided me. I have no way to keep the plates spinning. . .they have all crashed to the floor. And now. . .like you am trying to see where all the pieces fit together.

>>Each on their own, do not make much sense, but joined together, are absolutely chilling and paint a horrific picture.<<

(((betrayed)) the P that dealt on you sounds like the most tortuous, sadist,vile and pernicious P. It is amazing that you are standing girl. Yes. . .very chilling. . .very horrific! I'm so glad we can reach out to one another here. . .and I'm glad YOUR'E here :-)

blessing to you. . .
finished

Finished, thank you for the information, it is true more I know less i am obsessed.

>>I talk to a lot of P types, picking their brains<<

>>Aren't you scared? Their brain running fast makes me thing that it is probably as I overdose on coffee. I, yes, after spending an entire day with P, that is how I had the impression the P brain was working. I was also told that he never manage to finish was he started because he is already thinking of something else<<


Hi Hopefull.

No, I'm not scared. They are not all like the one that targeted me. He was an extreme case of P. In my business, I deal with all kinds of people. If you have their number and know how the con men types operate, they are pretty easy to figure out. Just hold your purse tight. One famous con they use, is to try and sell me something that I don't really want, for more than I want to pay.but they tell me and have me visualizing about all the other terrific stuff they have to sell. They play on my greed. If I buy the one piece and pay what they want, then I will get to buy the rest of their stuff. BUT, there is no other stuff and I just bought something I really didn't want, for way too much money.

The old carrot on the stick.

I have had even little old ladies pull this one on me.


When I moved back into the original store, the owner hired a guy to help us move the stuff from my store. On the second day of us moving, when this guy was alone with me he started called me sweetheart and honey and was overly attentive. My anttenae went up and I waited. He later said to me that day, "You know I was thinking last night, just with all the books you have here, if you even got 50 cents each for them, there is a lot of money here. These creeps are dangerous when they think. LOL. A nice short form of one of the cons, what the P took a year and a half to do.

PS. I told the owner about this creep and he never hired him back.


The P said to my friend, when we were moving out of the original store, packing a large semi with my stuff, almost the same words about the books. The P was estimating how many books we were loading, and made the same 50 cent comment. My friend never told me about this until much later.

I had a lot of these P types, do the abuser dance of courtship around me, when I ran my own store. It was fascinating watching them work, so predictable. One thing I noticed that many of them do is have you visualizing them naked. They will tell stories, but not sexual, where they are naked in the stories.I would call them on it. I would just say to them," oh there's you trying to get me to visualize you naked." They would just smile and realize I was on to them.

Some would even bring women in with them sometimes and try and play us against each other. I would laugh and point out to the women, what the P type was pulling. That I had not the slightest interest in their boyfriend, and he was pulling a number on her.


Betrayed

>>>One thing I noticed that many of them do is have you visualizing them naked.<<<< My P did that right in the beginning. I would call and he would answer saying that he was in the shower but would go on talking for long.
Interesting!

Thanks ((((Finished)))).

You have no idea how important it is for someone to understand the horror of how dangerous he is and believe me. What parts of my story, make you believe me? I didn't know what parts to tell to the police. It was so confusing.

I forgot another piece that belongs with the heroin story.He told me of setting up a hunting lodge with a guy in Quebec before he came here.It was almost the same scenerio as what he did with me. He said it never got finished. I asked why not. He said, "The guy died of an overdose."

If he starts again, I am back in the same place. Powerless and unprotected. I am so scared. I have gotten on with my life, but just trying to put all this down makes me realize, we are still possibly in danger. Am I being paranoid? Has he moved on, never to come back??
The black rage that I saw him capable of in my store, and occasionally saw while he was stalking us, was terrifying.

Betrayed.

>>>Are there books out there that teach people these techniques? If so I see why they would have to "target". The "target" would be like a "guinea pig" to experiment with their new mind control skills. <<<

Not that I know of, but the techniques are similar in ones used in healing. Therapeutic metaphors by Milton Erickson, and Nuero Linguistic Programming NLP by Bandler and Grinder describe how to put people in trance like states, using metaphors,and other hynotic techniques which the P used alot of with me. I think these guys use these techniques naturally. Multiple personalities put them selves in trance like states, hypnotizing themselves to escape the abuse as children. If the abuse is severe enough, these states become personalities,parts of the whole. As adults they use dissassociation as a defense mechanism. The ability to hypnotize themselves and others comes naturally. Every P I have ever met has been severely abused as a child. I think they practise their skills all the time, on anyone who happens by.

Key writes about subliminal advertising in the media, television, magazines, etc. but the techniques advertisers use are similar, to what P's use.

P's use veiled ( or blatent) threats of danger and blackmail around their victim, so the victim is paralized into not leaving.

Betrayed.