Hi HadEnuff, if I may ask how old are your children still in your home?

Di

I only have one left at home now, 15 year old. My eldest (Psychopath) hasn't lived at home since my youngest was 8.

Hadenuff, you should not feel guilty if his reckless lifestyle will result in his death. It will put him out of his misery. Of course, if that happens, I can't even imagine the tremendous grieving process you will have to go through. But you have to understand that nothing of that is your fault, and you should not feel guilty about it. There is nothing you could of done to ever prevent any of those horrible things from happening, and no one could of in your position. No matter how "experienced" or "unexperienced", or "good" or "bad" parents are, there is nothing anyone could of done to raise him right. He is the way is, and no one has the power to change him. It is a true tragedy and a lot of pain, but that is the way it is. You just need to understand that nothing of that is your fault. Have a good day!

And again I agree. Will it ever be over for us?
No matter he is in jail or free for a while again. Somewhere in the back of my mind I think of him. I have to say when he is in jail I am at piece for a while at least. there he can't hurt himself or anyone else. I mean with not hurting himself; The drug use is atleast less, and he isn't driving cars. I say cars for he uses 7 to 10 cars a year. He always is in accidents and he is in hospital often. He broke every bone in his body uptill now and doesn't wait for the treatment to finish before having the next episode. Again another possibility to die! He can't blackmail nor manipulate anyone and his so called girlfriend for the moment is free from is agressiveness for the time being. He can't steal from any person or shop, and so on...
I know this about him going to die young for a very long time now and somehow..if possible, I made my peace with it.It is in my mind now and again, but it isn't making me crazy with panic any longer.
Knowing it will come sooner or later, doesn't mean I won't grieve, but I guess, and it is only guessing, that grieving will be different from mothers who loose their good, loving child.
Another thing is..When another parent is coping with a difficult child people are patient and supporting. Ask how you are and if it is oke with the child.. I think you know; people don't ask me that.so I guess they will not feel any compasion when I get the news my son isn't living anymore. In the past,. when he was in jail the first time people around me were very harse and only said things like; 'it is where he belongs, you do agree don't you!'....I was so confused back then..Don't they see the heartache of a mother, no matter what that child did, it is the son of that mother....
I know he is bad, but my cells don't,
I don't ask how it is for him; he is in jail , knows why and how it came that far..I don't...
I did my best to raise him properly, he didn't pick anything up from all my effort but non the less I put in my all and the pain was almost unbearable .
Now, so many years later, I am more at a distance and look at it in a more abstract way i suppose.
For the last , almost 2 years it is quit . I don't see him, I don't hear from him and it seems he has finally figured out that in times he is bored there is no use of trying to blackmail or manipulate me, so he leaves me alone....
Sometime, only now and again, I look at his page on the internet , just when I am thinking of him a bit extra, to see if I can something of what is happening., and maybe figure out why I am thinking of him more then usually.

I see you are worried about your other children. You wonder about if he will look for them when they are grown up and living on their own....Don't worry...he will!
Don't think for 1 minute he won't for again; you will hope, that takes all your energy and the disappointment will drain you even more.
Be sure he will, for that is what they do...
But also try to rely on the goodnes and intelligence of the other children.
Will he mess with them? Yess he will..
Will they let him mess with them...Yes they will for they still hope, still think of him as their brother.

They do remember what happened, and they are just like other people and will think; 'Maybe he changed after all. Everybody deserves another change!'
They need to be loyal to their brother, it is just one of those things of live.
but soon enough they will see him for what he is and they will make their own disicion to stop having contact. He will stalk them too but he will get bored with all of that and will leave them alone after some time.
Maybe that is the only trait in psychopaths we can trust...boredomm...
It is hard for you, being the mother, want to protect them for all the wrong and hurt, but you can't. Life is giving them life lessons too. And the only thing you can do is stand on the sideline watching..be ready when it is time to be their to help, comfort, explain and smile to them, telling you love them and still respect them.
I know the panic you feel when the psychopath son is approaching the younger ones.
My younger son is 8 years apart from my oldest He suffered greatly from his brothers behaviour and still choosed his side...still blamed me for he heard all the stories from his brother...he saw within a short time what his brother was really doing. He was scamed by his brother ...He is finished with him and doesn't want to see him anymore.
Letting go of the dreams we once had is the hard part I think....that is where the pain is coming from mostly probably?
Segaya

Hello Hadenuff

I have been following your posts and wanted to go over them before I responded to you and welcome you to the forum. I found it such a lifeline when I came across it and I could make sense of my reactions after being involved with my partner’s son.

At first I thought his kid was just spoiled and hadn’t been taught some of the social niceties and could be ‘educated’ but a deep seated personality disorder develops over time and far from anything improving, the opposite happened.

His story is he rejected his mother from birth so my partner took over his care as he worked from home. Their marriage lasted a further 18 months but her personality disorder (sounds histrionic to me) drove him to leave home. He remained in contact with his kid and had him to stay regularly and when he was 6 years old she phoned him and said to come and collect his kid as she couldn’t cope with him any longer. He was destroying her new marriage. He went to live with his father without a second glance or seeming to miss his new little brother.

We presumed that he had suffered abuse when he was with her but looking at things objectively what we would consider terrible parenting was probably exactly what a child would like. He was allowed to stay up to whatever hour, watch TV anytime and any programme he wanted, he could eat and drink anything he wanted, didn’t have to go to school let alone read the books sent home, could go anywhere she went even parties. He was completely free and when my partner took him he tried to make up for feeling guilty so the kid went from one indulgent situation to another.

When I came along and later tried to introduce acceptable parenting he did show signs of improving but of course it was only the ‘honeymoon period’. Then it all began to kick off and I could see why his mother wanted rid of him. Things became unbearable and he eventually went back to his mother at age 14, he is now 17 and we haven’t heard a word from him since. He left without a second glance….yes ..same as when he left his mother. He knows when he has exhausted his source of supply and it’s only because the mother thought she would get paid to have him back that she took him.

We didn’t have things as bad as you are experiencing but I recognise a lot of the behaviour. I firmly believe that psychopathy is something inbred in a small number of people and it develops depending on the circumstances. My partner’s kid was sort of OK when the two of them were on their own as he was totally indulged and I can imagine if a psychopath was born into a wealthy lifestyle he would become a different sort of adult psychopath to one brought up with less.

I have an idea of what you must have gone through and the rollercoaster ride of emotions, by listening to my partner. The expectations for a child to grow up happy and healthy and a pleasure to bring up are all lost when you have a child with a personality disorder. There is everything from denial to despair until eventually the situation is taken out of your hands. The self reflection of the parents, the feeling of loss almost the death of the child but without the finality. Then feeling guilty for being an inadequate parent and worse, a parent that doesn’t like their own child let alone love them. The guilt for producing a person that has no value to society and capable of committing serious crimes against others. Asking yourself what sort of person you are to feel like this. My partner went through hell accepting reality and like Segaya will always have some ‘love’ for his son. The son he wanted, the son he thought he had, the son he had aspirations for…the illusion. The son he now considers dead but someone else is walking about in his body.

I didn’t have most of these issues to deal with but had to question what sort of person I was to wish that a kid would drop off the planet. I did have the comfort of knowing I had done everything I possibly could for him before I gave up and he wasn’t a product of my genes. That was a hard fact for my partner to face but I believe the kid had a double dose of bad genes, first from his mother and also through his own side as he has a brother with a severe personality disorder. He can trace both lines and can identify problem personalities back a few generations.

It is hard for anyone without a child like this to really understand the emotions of the parents, the dilemma of loving and hating the same child. It’s human instinct to want to nurture our offspring otherwise mankind would not be here and how do you stop nurturing once you have started? The hope for change and the determination to make things better carry on, there is no way you can think ‘today is the day when I let everything go, let it all happen as it will’.

There are always those who sit in judgment but that does not happen on this forum, knowledge is power so all we can do is inform as many people as we can and maybe one day the professionals will gain insight into how psychopathy affects children and their families.

By sharing our experiences and ways of coping we can benefit each other without criticism from people who don’t understand.

Regards
Jan

Segaya and Jan, I hear you guys loud and clear, and I share most of the same emotions. It has been hard on us, and we have made it through...but it is far from over.

He just called us from jail. He landed there today and wants us to post bail, because as usual he is 'innocent' and jail is not good to screaming queens who cannot keep thier mouths shut. He is in for the greatest lesson of his life so far, and I will not post bail because he won't learn anything, and he will run to another territory as soon as they let him out. This I know. THey had a warrant for his arrest and he has spent the last year across the country because he knew they would catch him if he came back anywhere near here. I guess he thought they must have forgotten, because he came back and they now have him. nothing big, just drug related...isn't it irinic how us parents can be so relieved that it is *only* drug related:>) Only those of us who know how big it could have been...
So anyway I won't post his bale so he threatens to send some prison related chinese mafia after me...I won't even tell you how I think he's going to pay them to come after me...that is another sotry.
But I am feeling like I'm caught between a rock and a hard place...jail is NOT faggot friendly...I know that, but I also cannot post bail and have him living here. Why is it that they can still tear at your heart even when you are doing your best to stand strong? I don't know if I could forgive myself if he got killed in jail, especially because I wouldn't waste a few hundred dollars and spring him loose. A few hundred dollars is nothing compared to a life, but his life makes so many others miserable and unsafe.
I keep trying to ask myself from a Chirstian perspective, what God would have me do...and the answer is never forthcoming...

Hi Hadenuff,

I don't think he understands how devastating the situation is for you, that is why he keeps ripping your heart apart. I understand if he would say something like "Mom, I really messed up this time, could you please post bail, and I promise I will try to get help I need to fight my addiction, etc." But "I will send the Chinese mafia on you if you won't comply" is plain outrageous. Prison is a tough place, especially for gay people, but at the same time thousands of gays are currently incarcerated and doing fine, considering the circumstances. Back in college I used to volunteer with my group at a local facility by teaching inmates GED classes. It is not as bad as you think for them. He will be safer in prison. I am not really too knowledgable about the Bible, but I think it says somewhere "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

Hai hadenuff,
My heart goes out to you.I do understand where you are coming from.
I want to share some of my thoughts about this resueing feeling.
But first;

Forest Flower wrote;

I understand if he would say something like "Mom, I really messed up this time, could you please post bail, and I promise I will try to get help I need to fight my addiction,
As we know when something like this is said by our psychopath sons, we are immediatly on our toesWe watch our back and we will not rest!
A psychopath speaking like this is like being in a war and not knowing where the anemy is.

The way I deal with this whole issue of loving my son, wanting to take care of him and being so concerned came over the years and it took me very long to get to this attitude.
I leanred the hard way to let go. Now letting go is the hardest thing in life, but to let go of your own child is hell.
Of course on a certain point we don;t have to take care of them anymore, for children move out, so the practical care isn't needed anymore.
I am talking here about the emotional part of letting go.
being a religious person myself I asked myself som many questions and it was so hard to finally get it, but also a relieve;
I don't own my son...

This is probably a strange way of expressing but you have to forgive me, my native language isn't English!

I mean; He is his own person, he is to make his own mistakes (ahum) and his own decisions. He is free to be whoever he wants and he doesn't have to include me, or is't to give me any reasons for who he is and what he does.
The other side of this is that I am my own person too, I make my decisions and live my life how I choose to.
I don't owe anyone any explanation for the way I think, feel or act.

I, as a mother have an opinion on who my son is, but I am only human and who am I to make a judgement.

Everybody 's path of life is holy..If I really, really believe this then I know to let go and leave it upto a higher intelligence.
I know the bible...It says; ( sorry of I translate it wrongly, hope you get what I mean)
'Take care of your neighbour as you take care of yourself and god above all.'

The keyword in this is..as you take care of yourself!
You have to take care of yoruself .it is bvious in htis textpiece that at the end you are more responsible for hte person you are then you are or you nighbour( everubody else in yorulife).
This is hard, especialy for women for they have learned it differently; take care of everybody Accept yourself.

Now coming back to the same bible;
Isn't there a frase to about how God takes care of you and knows all that happends to you, even a hair won't fall of your head without Him knowing!

I am not here to teach you your bible...I try to give you some clues to hold on to and think about to see if there is a new way of dealing with those things.

It helped me a lot and I hope it will help you too...
Segaya

Hello Hadenuff

It's so hard to let go when it's in our nature to do the right thing and do the duty of a parent. Your son had choices and those decisions put him in jail so you have no influence on where he is. He is is an adult first and your son second now and as you say he is in for the greatest lessons of his life and they can't be taught by a parent. He is in the only place he is going to have anything positive happen to him, I hesitate to say a place where he will learn something but even if he learns to keep quiet it is something. If he has to be kept in isolation for his safety then he won't have the opportunities to learn more bad ways as usually happens.

On a practical level you will lose your bail money, he will run and have fresh territory to work on and access to drugs and the lifestyle it entails to get them. He will end up back in there anyway so the time out will only be temporary yet present opportunities to do what he does best.

The reason it gets to you is the same for all victims, they have a great sense of justice, affection and are trusting others are like them and do the right thing...along with bucketfuls of hope.

Maybe if you think about it as saving him from himself but more important stopping him destroying other people's lives. I know little about US jails but Forest Flower has 'inside' information and I suppose it all depends on your son's behaviour as to how he is treated.

Being a Christian I'm sure means taking care of everyone in society, doing the right thing for the majority not isolating one person's needs above others. There are many stories in the bible that tell of dilemmas and often they are resolved by lateral thinking. As an observer I would consider what is the biggest benefit for the majority of people.

I cannot see any benefit to society if your son is part of it and I can hardly see any benefit to him either. What will he do if he gets freedom and you have allowed him to be free by posting bail, no doubt you will feel incredibly guilty that he hurt someone else? If he does a runner he will immediately put himself in trouble and you seem confident that he will.

These are decisions that have to be made with the head and not the heart which is so easy to say when it's not your own son.
You have made the right decision not to post bail and I'm sure everyone here will say the same and support you fully on that.

This man is no longer the son you had so try to think how you would advise someone else if he was their son.

Regards
Jan

I am trying hard to believe that leaving him in prison is the best thing for him. He has this power game that he plays though, and he is going to really learn some hard lessons about trying to play that game in there...hopefully he knows better than to try. He likes to threaten authorities with charges of sexual abuse...he plays it everytime he gets in trouble. He will try and charge a jail guard with coming into his cell and abusing him. My son is forever the victim, and as far as he's concerned there's a hidden sexual agenda in everyone he meets, and they all want a 'piece' of him. When he was in juvie quite a few years back he tried to press charges on a couple of the workers there, because they tried to restrain him when he was pulling a screaming tantrum.
He has this other game he plays to psychologically disarm people as well. He sings at the top of his lungs...sometimes in opera...somtimes just renditions of gospel songs...and he will do this until you have to leave because he doesn't hear you say STOP! He has a habit of calling everybody he knows and singing until you hang up, or filling your answering machine with it. You have to hear it to believe it...
and he does the same thing with dancing. He thinks he is the best singer/dancer in the world and if you have a mirror in your home he is dancing in front of it in very sexually provoking ways, no matter who is there. He used to do it alot if he stopped in to visit and we had company. He does it to embarrass us, and he succeeds:>)
Everything single thing he does is for our psychological demise. He plays it to the hilt. He does it, simply to pi$$ people off. He does it on the streets of cites and gets spit on and then uses that to collect sympathy from others. He seems to thrive on forcing people top abuse him in some way so he can collect pity. I don't know, I don't understand it...but it worked well for him when he was a kid. I think he is beginning to realize it doesn't work so well anymore so he is switching gears to another game. But he still usus that one when he can
In many ways I am glad he is in jail...it is a releif to us in the way that I don't feel like I have to lock all our doors in the daytime. He has been known to show up here unanounced and can be quite destructive. Ahhh, the joys. I just hope he learns to be quiet in there, and lay low, but I know better.