Next time he ends up in prison I am going to have to think and act alot quicker.

Hi Hadenuff

The smearing faeces was the point of no return for both my partner and myself. The first time it happened I didn't see it for what it was. I missed the intention. By the third time I blew a fuse and from the moment I realised I made the decision that it was the kid or me who had to go.

Of course it would have to be me that left because my partner had a commitment to raise his kid and there was nowhere else for him to go at that time as he would not consider letting him go back to his mother.
My partner was hit right between the eyes with this latest stunt and couldn't understand how a kid of that age could be so nasty and plan such a thing, he couldn't get his head round the idea that a child would have those thought processes. It didn't surprise me at all and all those other little accidents and events became obvious for what they were.
There could be no more denial, excuses or reasoning and he had to accept what his kid was.

His commitment to the kid went completely and he realised he had no control of him in the sense that the kid had total control over his bladder, bowels and thoughts and was prepared to use them as a weapon. What would happen if he got a real weapon? There was nothing more he could do for the kid and it affected him so badly that he had produced this thing and he didn't know him and couldn't influence him in any way. The self doubt and blame was overwhelming. He knew the kid was trying to destroy us and made the decision that the kid had to go somewhere he could do less damage or more damage as the case may be so he came to the attention of the authorities. Boarding school was the interim step but they couldn't cope with him and he went back to his mother which was his choice.

A sense of humour is vital and we can make light of things now and we need not feel guilty for using it. It's OK for me because I feel no guilt about any of what happened, I did more for that kid than I did for anyone else I have ever known all to no avail. It took two years for my partner to think the same way. He now tries not to think about him or even that he existed but I know he still feels to blame for many things mainly for putting someone like that into society. I consider we were the lucky ones as the kid was very cowardly so not a physical threat apart from the covert incidents but of course that may change as he gets older.

I don't know whether very early intervention would have made any difference like some of the professionals say, maybe the only thing that would have helped is recognition of the problem so everyone was aware and could be vigilant. We would have appreciated respite care with someone who knew what they were dealing with but there is no such thing available.
Unless we can get a real diagnosis for these kids we will get nowhere and the professionals need to be made aware of what we endure or we will never change anything for future parents.

Regards
Jan

Is there ANYTHING that can be done for these kinds of kids? Has anyone had any luck at all with medication or treatment of some kind. Are they truly lost causes that will never really fit into society and always try and hurt anyone they come into contact with?

My son is currently on probation and seems to have an officer that would be willing to go the extra mile to get to the bottom of the issues and try and get help for him. Should I hold any hope at all?
I do feel sorry for the probabtion officer though, he has no idea what he is getting himself into, and my son is *very* good at getting anyone in a position of authority over him in some kind of trouble.

Hello Hadenuff

As far as psychopaths go there is no cure, no medication or therapy. As we cannot get a diagnosis for anyone under the age of 18 we cannot officially say we are dealing with a psychopathic child. Of course there are different degrees of Conduct Disorder but I think we know if we are dealing with one. By the time the person is 18 where and how do you start looking for help?

I wonder why your son's probation officer want to go that extra mile. it says more about him than your son. Of course it would be wonderful if he could get to the bottom of his issues....he would be an instant multi-millionaire if he found the 'holy grail' of psychopathy. I'm sure there are many psychologists who have devoted their entire careers looking for it but have you heard of any success?

Some thing just are what they are and like a child born with Down's Syndrome we just have to accept that nothing can change the condition. The only thing that can be changed is how we deal with what we are given. I thought of that so often, if my partner's kid had Down's Syndrome we would have willingly spent all our efforts doing the best for him and with him but his kid had a choice and that was to destroy everything and everyone. We gave ourselves to this kid for nothing. We had to accept he has a personality disorder and when he wanted something he certainly knew how to be the perfect child so he definitely knew what he should be. If he could do it for a week, he could do it for a month, a year or longer but he chose not to. As soon as he acquired what he wanted the facade would disappear or he would covertly cause mayhem.

Your son's probation officer might become your son's victim but whatever, he is on a steep learning curve and the first thing I would ask him is if he has read Without Conscience.
It will be good for his education and career to take on this challenge and also for the knowledge he might pass on to his colleagues. He will find out for himself that it is beyond his capabilities so he may well come to you for advice before long if you haven't suggested he is being naive.

How are things for you now?

Regards
Jan

Actually the probation officer used the word narcissistic...so perhaps they do have an idea what they are dealing with. I can only hope so.
I sooo hear you about the downs syndrome...I have often wished it had been downs instead of what we have to deal with, but then, would life really be that much eassier? I think not...at least ours DO grow up and leave home at some point. Down's is an awful lot of work for a whole lifetime.

Things here have been good...I have been working on a few projects around here to keep my ever wandering mind occupied:>) I'm sewing up a storm, and also restoring a vintage camper. Hardly have time to think...I like it that way.
The long weekend is coming up and I have alot of company coming...who knows...Psychopath himself might even make an appearance. I haven't seen him in about 8 or 9 months now.

Hi HadEnuff, can I put in an order for a few things for you to sew;)

If you could slip it in not all N's are Psychopaths but all Psychopaths have N tendencies.

I am extremely happy the Probation Officer is willing to work with you. He doesn't sound like the type the young Psychopath can overtake. The great news is that this information can be shared with other Probation Officers.

Being in the present moment with your projects is great, if the mind swings to the situation take a breath and bring yourself to the present moment.

From a distance you are doing all the right things and it is great you are doing some projects to keep your mind occupied.

Best regards,

Di

If he does show up don't be surprised if he tries to con the guests about what a lousy life he had. No better at playing the victim than a Psychopath.

Thank goodness he didn't come for the weekend. Oh, he sure is a pity trip when he does, you are so right. You should hear the stories he tells...how life is so terrible oput on the streets and he doesn't have a family to take him in...then get a job like everyone else!

I'm still sewing:>)

Hi HadEnuff,

We have heard that same pathetic story time and time again. It is a ploy used often to say the least. It is a way to isolate the victim. After all if he talks about his family etc. in such a normal person might take pity. Also it gets ever meeting his family off of your mind.

There is no one better at playing the victim card while they are victimizing the true victim.

Di

I am glad he didn't show, does he have a schedule that he keeps? I hope he doesn't have keys to your home.

Hi Everyone,
This is my first time on here. I have been the victim of some psychopaths in the past and have done a lot of healing over the last year. I have also recently realized that my daughter (who is 30) is a psychopath, (like her Dad, my ex).
Tilly

Hello Tilly

Welcome to the forum.

Maybe you could tell us a bit more about your situation and what brought you to the forum. If there is any information we can help you with please let us know. It must be incredibly sad for you that you think your daughter is a psychopath just like her father.

You say you have spent the past year trying to get over this and it just goes to show how deeply wounded people are. You are obviously sure your (ex?) husband is a psychopath so you must know the signs.

There has been a lot of research and discussion about whether psychopathy is nature or nurture and the professionals seem to think it is both but I feel quite sure it is more nature than nurture from my own experience and from what other people say about the children they know who show psychopathic traits.
I would be very interested to hear about your experiences and when you first suspected something was wrong with your daughter.

I hope you feel you can tell us more about what you have been through. Sometimes it just helps to unburden yourself by telling others who understand everything you say without even having to go into details.

I look forward to hearing more from you.

Regards
Jan