Hi Allie

I understand your need to vent, you are part of an eternal triangle. The only way to stop this is to remove yourself. You are allowing them to play the game all the time you are involved, without you there is no game and your husband can do what he needs to do. I can’t quite understand the set up of your living situation and why you are all so intertwined. It sounds as though you both spend a lot of time with MIL, is there any reason for that? Why do so many people around get involved with your lives?

I have to say if I was in the position I would TELL him to go back to his mother and be a little boy. Whether or not he wants to grow up he has the responsibility of a family and he should share it equally with you. If he can’t do that then he is just a burden for you. It’s not a healthy relationship when one partner is totally dissatisfied like you are and even worse if he is not satisfied either. What is in this relationship for you?

It’s a pathetic excuse for him to say blame his upbringing for how he behaves now, his brothers are from the same family but they were just stronger and didn’t become a victim. It’s the same for every human prey and victim scenario. A person can only be a victim as long as they allow it and are co-dependent. Counselling is only as good as the ‘victims’ will to change so if he went into it he needs the right attitude first and work towards that intention.

Maybe it’s time to let him go? Or tell you MIL she is welcome to him and you will be happy if he is happy being with her? You are the strong one in this relationship and it shouldn’t be a competition between two women. Ultimatum time? If he thinks you are serious……and I would be…..he may make an effort but if he doesn’t then you know he’s not that bothered about his marriage and family.
If they are being deliberately difficult to wind you up then saying it would make you all happy if he went back home to her might change her tactics. Is she likely to do something to make you happy?

Whatever happens you need to keep well away from the game playing, leave that to the children….your husband and MIL…. as they seem to have plenty of time on their hands to indulge in it.
If you are out there living your own life to the full and spending time with your children they won’t be involved. I know money is tight for all of us but there are plenty of things you can do that don’t cost money.

Look after yourself as he won’t/can’t and isn’t a good role model for his children.
Lead by example, dump the baggage to free yourself of a burden?

That is true.I just need to live my life the way I should be a good roll model for my children and be happy with myself and kids.If my husband wants to leave me for his mother or another woman or to be singal again,then I will let him!Then I have no more involvement with his mother or his games or baggage or hers!

In answer to your question,the reason my MIL is so invoved in our lives is she alays has to know what is going on on our lives.She calls to talk for hours to my husband,has to visit often and finds out about us through other family members.I think becuase my husband never set that boundary with her as he seen no need.No matter how much I set them she did not have to respect them.When I would say anything he would confront her and she would of course deny it.He grew tired of trying he said it does no good.So of course she gets away with it as if she never has violated us or me personally.So this explains out prpblem with her.He should of kept it between us not tell her!
I have thought many times of leaving him.I know his mother would along with him make a mess for me!And so I just don't want to fight them!So I stay and try to make the best of it.But now it's going to be just about me and the kids,even though it will be hard with the burden of him it's true.
The only time he ever made the kids something to eat or did the dishes is when I had worked.I do not know if it would be any different if I did go to work.His mother has too much influence on him and the family.She use to tell him where i needed to work so he would make me change jobs to something I would not want or would not be good at.SHE has to much say because he let's her it is sickening!I truly see now that I am married to a child,who will never grow up!

Hi Allie

It looks as though if you relieve yourself of your husband's problems then your other major problem would also go away.

We all have the right to being in the comfort of our homes without intrusion. If your husband is so keen to spend time with his mother couldn't he move back home with her? He doesn't sound like a good role model for your children either. If they model his ways you will have even more trouble in years to come with being used and abused.

If he does stay in your home and continues to live his life with no concern for his family then the only thing you can do is learn to block him and your MIL out of your mind. Let them play their games but it will be very hard not to rise to the bait. They need to be treated as two wayward kids who want attention.

It really is up to you how you handle them as it's doubtful either of them will ever change. Set firm limits for what you will and won't accept, communicate it to them both and have consequences if they don't respect you. An easy start is if he doesn't help with the dishes don't cook for him, once he has been told and doesn't comply then he knows the consequences. If he knows and still does it then he has made a choice to disrespect your wishes and should expect the same in return.

I know you will be concerned what people will think of you but that's their problem not yours. If in your own mind you are right...then you are! Why have so many people who are hanging around waiting to criticise you, leave them gossip amongst themselves if they have nothing better to to.

If they were worth anything they would support you.

Best of luck and we will cheer you on to stand up to the bully tactics. Don't let them make you a victim any longer.

Regards
Jan

It probably would not be a good idea to communicate my limits to my MIL,she will deny it and may even use it to cause problems.She plays mind games like it is part of who she is.
She is always after me as a mother and after me by being over protective of her son and herself.She loves to try and get my goat and is very negative always speaking negatives on me.She is very manipulative of others,I just don't know how to deal with it.Ordinarilly I would rid myself completely of someone like this to be around healthy people.Basically this woman has it out for me and will never stop it is like she is trying to break me.And is setting things up in the back ground to coordinate with her manipulation of me.Like you said it is hard not to always rise to the bait.M
Are there any common boundaries I could put in place,personally and in my marriage that I may not be thinking of.Thank you,
Allie I am currently trying to loose weight by exercising beause I am very overweight.My MIL is always making comments about weight and uses that to try break up us up,run me down and upset my husband with it always mentioning it so he will leave me being tired of me not loosing it.

Hi Allie

That’s not how setting limits works. Your MIL cannot deny the fact you state what you will and won’t accept, that would be like denying what you like and don’t like.
It’s a matter of communicating your wishes and limits to those who don’t respect them. It can be simple things like asking people not to phone between 6 and 8pm as that is the time you have dinner and spend time as a family. The consequence if MIL phones then is it won’t be answered, after warning her that will happen.
You can even take it further by telling her the times she can phone, then that puts you in control.

That may not be the best example but you will get the idea about putting yourself in control as I said yesterday, if your husband doesn’t do the dishes on Wednesday, he cooks his own meal on Thursday. That way even if he still doesn’t wash the dishes he has paid the consequence.
We always advise people dealing with psychopaths to have NO contact, not that I’m saying your MIL is a psychopath but if she is a manipulator then that is the only way to deal with her. How you achieve this in your case may be to learn to not be involved with her in any way, even if she is in the same room to feel she isn’t anything more than a piece of talking furniture. If she says things that upset you then she has won that game and has controlled you. It’s getting into the frame of mind that she doesn’t exist as a person so anything she says is just noise.

Good luck on losing weight but it should be done because you want to do it to make yourself happy, not for anyone else. That is mean and nasty to use something against you that she knows you are unhappy about.
Can I ask how come you get so close to her to hear her say these things…..or is it your husband she tells you? You seem to spend a lot of time in her company so maybe that is the first limit or boundary to set…..

Limits are what you want, to make you comfortable and anyone who doesn’t respect that is at fault. It’s taking charge of your own needs and your family needs. You sound like such a gentle, accepting person but you are not happy about what people are doing to you so I do hope you can stand up for yourself.

The reason your husband and MIL take advantage of you is because you allow it, she doesn’t get away with it with other family members so is it possible to speak to then about how they deal with her? Are you able to recruit them on your side?

I am getting some information from a womens abuse group about setting personal limits or boundaries so I will post that as soon as I have it. A lot of women who go to the support group have been abused because they couldn’t stand up to a bullying abuser and have to learn how to look after themselves.
There may be something like that where you live, if so I would urge you to go.

Regards
Jan

Thanks.

I will look into some kind of support group in my area and see what I can find.My husband has temperary work for now so that's good news for us.

As far as others in the family supporting me with how to set boundaries,I know my brother in laws will not.I have three sister in laws and one of them I do not really talk to except on facebook,she lives on the east coast.One of my SIL's when she was engaged to one on my BIL's said to me that my MIL has bounary problems and issues and said no more to me about it.She set her boundaries with our MIL a few years back,and now she does not want to hear about it.I guess since she set her boundaries with MIL and has no problems because she did,she care less about mine.I do know that over Christmas MIL told my husband and I that you cannot say anything to that particular SIL,I guess that is a boundary she set with MIL and I can see why.My third SIL has told me she and my BIL do not have problems like we have,that her husband believes in setting boundaries with his mother.I just have a BIG mess for not setting them!I am just a easier target than these woman.According to my husband and MIL my SIL's control their husbands.My husband is a male chauvinist and immature.I think this may be a reason my MIL is able to maintain some kind of control of her son and in his life which includes me and my kids.She has to acknowlede my SIL's as people not me.When we lived closer we use to have more contact than now,I hope it stays that way!

As far as the comments about weight,my MIL takes any opportunity to bring up the subject.When she visits or we have to visit her,she always has.I do now want to loose my weight for me now.My Dad and I knew my MIL for six years before I married her son.So I was told she knew things about me so that caused problems for me from the get go.I so badly want to be able to set limits for me and my kids and not be caught up in it all.
Thank you again,
Allie

Hi Allie

That's good news your husband has some work.

I wonder why you say you "HAVE to visit" your MIL? That could be the first boundary to set.....you don't visit her. If your husband wants to go then that's up to him. You don't even have to give a reason. Why should you have to put up with being insulted? The next boundary may be to TELL your MIL when she can visit your home and the consequence if she comes at another time then you just go out. You could do that anyway even if she has a pre-arranged visit. Leave your husband and her without a victim to upset.

Best of luck and I do hope we can give you the confidence to stand up to the people who are causing you problems by THEIR behaviour.

Regards
Jan

Hi Jan,
I have not looked locally for a support group yet,but have found a few online.My new problem with my MIL is a tricky one but one I can see I need to work out some how.I do know that she projects onto me,I looked that psychological term up on an online psyc dictionary.I believe my MIL is aware that I know this now and has found a new way to play her game,which I no longer want to part of in getting trapped in.For my birthday she sent in the mail a gift,which is a little plaque that has a little prayer for a mom.It says "Lord in caring for those you've sent into my life let me help them grow in body,mind and spirit and develop gifts you have given them(this part is okay,all mothers would like that)but the last part says "Help me to embrace not clutch support.Not suffocate and correct without crushing.Help me to help them find their way to you."
This is her
way of projecting her dysfunction with her son(my husband)onto me,to say that is what kind of mother I am who smothers her kids and uses them as a crutch etc.And it is a game to see if I receive this because it is in the form of a gift.What I expect is her to ask me or my husband how I liked my gift,it can't be just receiving a thank you from me it has to a manipulation strategy to trap me what ever I say.I was thinking that she wants to trap me by saying something like yes I like it,then in turn that must mean I received it and admit I am like this mom it describes.Or if I get upset it means she hit a nerve and it is true of me,and I think she is playing this game because what she wants is to not face reality of herself being this kind of mother and trying to project this onto me.Also I thing she would tell others friends&family of what I said in response to her birthday gift to me,to put thoughts into their heads that I am this kind of mom to get it off of herself so they don't see it.I think that in my MIL's mind if she suspects I know that she projects onto me,that it must be the truth of me because I fall for it when I know better.Like the saying if someone violates you the first time it is them the second time they do it it is yourself.She openly admitted this,that if someone does something to you, you don't like and you react they will just keep doing it to you.I should probably say that this is not a new problem but I am asking now how to deal with it.This is my problem with my MIL for years.
This is really sick,I should not even have to worry about this.My MIL plays psychological defense mechanism games and is a sick person.Any advice on how to deal with this?
Thanks,
Allie

Hi Allie

It’s good you are looking for support groups but I really think you would benefit most by finding a group you can visit and interact with. I think you will see the difference immediately. I am still waiting for the information from a source to help women like yourself who need coping strategies dealing with the sort of abuse you receive from your MIL.

Don’t forget she can only play games with you if you join in. I think of it as though someone throws a ball to you but you don’t want to play ball. You tell that person you don’t want to play and if they do throw the ball to you then you are not going to catch. If you don’t catch it and it falls to the floor and you turn and walk away then they are left having to decide whether to go and pick it up or leave it on the floor. By the time they have decided you are long gone. It’s pointless trying to throw it to you again because you are not there.

If I were you I would stop getting in range of this woman so she can’t see you to throw a ball to. If you ever do get in range of her…let the ball/insult/hurtful comment or whatever fall to the floor. Is she going to go over and pick it up and throw it again? If she does and it falls to the floor each time she is going to look pretty stupid. Can you try to think of everything she says is a ball? Just a ball of bouncy rubber with nothing inside it? Mental images help you see intangible words or actions as a toy someone is playing with.

This woman seems to spend so much time in your company and in your mind, if she won’t leave your space then can you leave hers? Does she visit your home that much? If so tell her when you are prepared for her to visit, it’s your home and it’s your right to let her know what you will and won’t accept. Your husband doesn’t appear able to make decisions so you may have to take that role. Do you visit her home, if so why? You do not have a duty to do so, your husband can if he wants.

As for the gift, could you use it as an opportunity to project back on to the MIL? Perhaps thank her for such a thoughtful gift and ‘you understand the significance and accept her apology and will take is as a constant reminder not to make the mistakes she has, you appreciate her offering her experience of making mistakes’. Turn it around and use it in whatever way you can and choose to see the meaning of it that suits you to be in control. Thanking her for it doesn’t mean insincerity if you see it as thanks for giving you a clear picture of the way her mind works. You can always chuck it in the bin or display it in the WC.
It’s a trivial piece of junk which tells you what goes on in her head… when you thank her…in your mind thank her for proving to you she is who she is. You could always try sarcasm and tell her you don’t feel worthy of such a gift and it is more appropriate for her to keep it at her home where she can enjoy it, then when you feel you have earned it you would be delighted to have it.

I do wonder why you allow her to eat away at you, she is not worth it. It doesn’t matter a jot what anyone else thinks. You might be quite surprised if you stood up to her, others might support you. It could be they don’t do it now because they haven’t had the opportunity because you don’t seem to want to. Do the rest of the family realise you have had enough of her?
She treats you the way she does because you are standing waiting to catch the ball every time she throws it and you play her game by catching it and throwing it back.

Best of luck building your defences, look after yourself if others don’t.

Regards
Jan

by projecting back onto her isn't this catching the ball and playing her game?Why can't people see who she really is?If they did this would stop.I am just going to ignore her if she asks if I like the gift,and if I can't I will think of something like what you said.I will set my boundaries with her when she does visit,which she will in spring and several times during the summer.I just can't care to coordinate the front with my husband anymore,which is what she is looking for and seeing it as a sign of weakness in my marriage.I am important and matter to myself not her,I will just leave her to it.I have to visit on holidays I do not have a choice with my husband,but I will try to get out of it if I can.
Thanks,
Allie