Dear Segaya,

I've been trying to keep going, ignoring a feeling inside but I've got to the point where I need to follow on what I feel/sense, paranoid or not. I'm not good at group things, Terrible, in fact, and for me this forum is also a group and I find myself reacting, being sensitive to things, very aware about who is included and excluded etc. It triggers stuff, as a lot of what gets posted here, also triggers. But I'm just finding myself real triggered about something I'm finding hard. I guess in a way I do see the triangle as a group and it's not from within I feel it. And not that anything has been said, more that it hasn't, to each of us in the group but I "get the message". Group inclusion/exclusion is something I'm very sensitive to. It's the little girl in me who watches as the teacher makes her way round the class speaking to each of the students, except me. Maybe she just didn't have anything to say to me or didn't want to, and there's no reason she has to. Then she goes round the class and again I'm the only one she misses. However unintentional it's hard for me. I just feel excluded and invisible and confused. That's me. It's going to be hard stepping back from you, for a while at least, because this has nothing to do with you or Lady Crown and I know I need to be in touch. I'm sorry. I've tried to rationalise this with myself, but as I said, I'm just feeling too sensitive these last fews days, after so much the last two weeks, to talk myself out of how it feels. It's just too hard and I need to step away. Please know this is not from the two of you. I tried to keep going despite this because of the connection here, but I'm at the end of my stretch with this right now. I'll be thinking of you both very much.
Love Sapphira

Dear Sapphira


I’m so sorry to hear you are going through a bad time, I have been watching you and Segaya and Lady Crown build a wonderful supportive group and thought it was giving you all security being able to share the experiences you have in common. I hope you don’t feel I was neglecting you as it certainly wasn’t intended. I didn’t want to intrude on the group as I don’t feel I have the experience to discuss the terrible things the three of you have endured.

I know it must be so hard to write about the things you do and did not want to trivialise the depth of your emotion by commenting. I have been reading and feeling intensely sad, angry and hurt for the children you were. Sometimes I felt voyeuristic reading about your childhoods and not saying anything but I can assure you my heart was desperately wanting to speak to you, I felt there was nothing I could say at times that would make anything any better. I felt Lady Crown and Segaya could be the people to connect with directly with you as your lives have similar circumstances. I feel quite unable to come up to any expectations that you all should expect of someone communicating with you about your lives.

I do hope you don’t stay away for long as we all care about you and will be very concerned knowing you are suffering and we are not supporting you.
Please don’t ever think anyone would want to exclude you from anything and I know if anyone on the forum feels they have made you feel this way, they, like me will be desperately sorry.

Maybe Segaya and Lady Crown will help me say what I’m trying to put across. I don’t feel worthy enough to offer help only comfort, support, love and concern. It’s a bit like saying a prayer to help someone, no-one knows apart from the person saying the prayer how much feeling and desire to help goes into it.

Remember we will be thinking about you constantly and will be looking forward to your next post. If Segaya looses one of her socks she will have a cold foot until she finds it again:(

Regards
Jan

Dear Sapphira,

I am confused a bit....
I thought you were worried at first of people being excluded from our little group. Then I understand that YOU feel excluded from the little pinky triangle...I don't know what it is that triggered you and it's up to you to let us know or not. The point for you is that you don't feel comfortable this way and you are right to tell us!!
About groups...I know exectly what you mean..And I am so sure Lady Crown will too. How can we not. We were always the ones who were excluded, at home, at school, and everywhere we had to go. Even when people didn't mean for us to feel so..WE felt that way. And let's be honest we were excluded..people didn't realize what was going on and we couldn't tell it! So that way we were always different.

To exclude anybody is a bad thing, So I will not behave like that. As you could have noticed I respond to others as well as I respond to you and Lady Crown.
The only thing is...and there I have to agree with you ( if that is what you mean) People can feel excluded indeed. We write a lot to each other and it could be others think they cannot have a part in it. When they read closely they would know it's not a problem for anybody to join.

My heart is crying for it has to be so hard for you to write this. I know you have to follow your own feelings as they are there to do act on them. Always follow your intuition!!

But I have to be honest too... Is what you are feeling emotion or intuition, for there is a big difference between the two and it is hard to distingues them?
Are we comming too close... does it feel uncomfortable in that way? Do we make you uncertain because of our stories that are so simmilar?

I say this in care Sapphira ,not to butt in were I don't belong.
I know you have to follow your own ideas and I will miss you a lot and hope that you come to terms with those feelings soon and will return. No matter what your dicision is... I will be thinking of you and knowing that on the other site of the world is such a dear friend of mine.

I also do realize that as things just begun to get clear to you, the things we talk about here are very very much at once...I worried about it before even.....I wasn't able to stop it or put the break on and I do appoligize for that!!!.
I had to know better.....

I can only say one thing; Please come back if there is a need for you. Don't ever worry about you being welcome or that we don't want to speak with you for you will be our beloved friend... Even when it takes you a long time to come back...it doesn't matter.. We will never be able to get you out of our heads for you are so much a part of our lives now....This can be wrong to say in the circumstances as they are, but I have to let you know...

You are a brave woman to let us know how you feel and think; a true Sapphire!!!

Please keep on taking care of yourself, keep close to yourself and be strong...You will come out of this a better person than anyone could ever expect with the way you were brought up. You will be able to be helping others on there path to live and will life it yourself...You are a loving person and bring that love to yourself please.

Blessed be Sapphira, from the bottom of my heart, blessed be!
With tears in my eyes; Segaya

Dear Sapphira,
I have to try;

Can you make clear way you feel excluded for I can't see it..Call me stupid that's oke...
There can't be a triangle if there are not tree persons can there?
Or..and this is also possible ; You feel too much a part of it? Are you scared...?

I am sorry if you feel me intruding too much..Please ignore me than oke...
I think I am feeling your hurt..and it is not a small thing an being who I am, I like to help if there is anything I can do?
We reach out...it's up to you to react on it..or not... But whatever you dicide; We do care and we do love you.
Hugs Segaya

Dear Segaya,

I can be honest with you and open. This is very hard for me to hear how you are feeling because of me and mine, so I will be totally open with you even though to say this is also difficult for me and I also have to respond to Jan's post. Being so close is becoming easier and it is not that. And you never intrude. Never. It's my stuff getting triggered and I will deal with that and I need to let you understand how it's not you. I find it really hard when I notice that apart from a recent response to a direct question I made about editing, Jan communicates with everyone except me. I don't have any 'expectations' and it is only because it is so obvious to me that I am the only person NOT being approached or communicated with that it has become an issue. Being the only one not spoken to by a certain person when that person approaches and communicates with literally everyone else gives me cause for wonder when, until then, there was no cause. In the beginning I just tried to keep going, but over the last few days...well, it got too much. That is it. That is all. I wish I could have said this before hand, and you are so likely to understand a sensitivty to these things, but I couldn't. I wish I could have spared you this. I'm very sorry Segaya.
Sapphira

Hello Sapphria,

I am the one that is at fault. Jan is doing her best with very limited time and juggling a lot of things personally. Unfortunately this has been the first break I have taken time from the forum due to not being fully able to type. I am so sorry that you are upset and hope we can keep the communication open. I do read everyday and admire your strength and courage.

I have found the strength and courage the Pinky Girls - all of you are showing each other with such deep compassion and understanding knowing how difficult it must be to open up.

I hope to be better able to help Jan out in the next couple of weeks.

I know and trust Jan completely for a long time and I am sure it is just a matter of her time is also very restricted and I am currently of no help to her.

Please accept my sincere apologizes for any pain being here has caused you.

All my best,

Di

Dear , dear , dear Sapphira,
Ohhh I am so happy, so very relieved that you are posting ....Pff I couln't stop thinking of you..feeling the pain you feel and not being able to put it in the right place.
Because you are so honest, open and brave for saying what is on your heart and mind I will do the same thing also oke....

I was thinking this evening about your postings and went over a lot of al our postings to find out what was really wrong for indeed I didn't get it...
I foudn it reading Jan's post to you.....Putting one and one together and get my intuition in, this is what I was comming to indeed.


Oke now what you are feeling and saying!
I know from Dianne she is still reading and very impressed as she reads what we write to each other...From Dianne I know Jan is reading also and is also very concerned about us all.
As you read the postings of Jan you will notice her concern with everyone and how hard she is trying to be there when needed.

When I was beginning my work I was a group leader for people who suffered abuse. I was with an organization for women who helped other women to deal with they're sexual abuse history. Now, one of the rules there were was that there had to be 2 group leaders in every group of say around 12 women who came to talk about those things every 2 weeks.
One of the groupleaders had to be a proffesional and one had to be an ex victim herself.
Not hard to guess; I was the ex victim.
So I worked along with differend proffesionals; Psychiatrist, psychologists, psychiatric nurses, wellfare workers, social workers and so on.

Do you have any idea how many times these proffesionals made me so very, very angry??
The were plane rude in my eyes..didn't have a clue what they were talking about and did make more victims of the women doing so!!!
When some of the woman was telling her story they just didn't get it.... say the totally wrong things, about something very differrent than what the woman was talking about and the women didn't tell anything anymore!! they didn't trust anymore...Didn't and couldn't open up anymore...Why??? because they didn't feel taken serious anymore...they went home hurt and in grieve .again..while suffered so much already!!!
Owwhh it made me wild with anger with these so called proffesionals....

So, ones every week I had to go to that organisation..One week for training and scholing and the other week for the womensgroup ....I felt helpless and not succeeding at all in what i wanted to achief..and got fed up with it..and opend my mouth during the training..Get everything out what was bothering me and was waiting for the others to respond..or not....!!!!
No response came for a while...Looking back on how angry and agressive I had seemed no wonder!
I was fed up with all this people calling themselves proffesionals while these women suffered and they didn't do anything to relieve they're pain..On the other side; They were adding to it by there stuppid comments! I told them it is better to shutt up then to open they're mouths and let the bull [censored] come out..They were hurting MY people and I will not tolerate that!
Ppff who was I to act like this I wonder now.....how much did I know??!!!

One of the women proffesionals started to cry and she opend up to me and the others who were there at that moment;...I will never forget it Sapphira..what a big hugs mistake did I make!!!
I was so very buzy with what I was feeling for those women in the group that I didn't have any eye for the proffesionals...And what I heard then and there opened my eyes to how others, bystanders, see things..feel things...And by god; please never ever let me feel that way!
For it made me understand from they're point of few what they are up against.
No , I will never be able to relate deep and thoroughly with people who had a nice live, for I can't even immagine how that has to be..But i do recognize what our stories make them feel..They feel inadecuite, helpless..don't know what to say or how to react on those 'heavy stories' as we say here in Holland. It scares the hell out of them to know what really happends behind closed doors and they are so very very afraid to say anything to disturbe, say wrong , make things trigger the wrong way.That they choose often to keep quite. Not because they don't care or don't get attached to those women, but simply because they feel they can't add anything. Now these women who are group leaders HAVE to say something, they feel..Have to get in contact with the women of the group ,but doing so they feel they can't reach out, they can't make the contact they really want and more and more withdraw from it in the active way. Leaving me to deal on my own...What frustrated me so much!??
I was 25 years old at the moment and just starting my work with those women..What did I know by then???? And that is what made me so very angry!

Now looking back I know it was all mis-communicating what was happening... nothing more, nothing less.

I read your postings and mine.Lady crowns and Jans and Dianna's.... I also read the response from Jan today.....Do you feel her pain as I do?...She is intuitively feeling what you ment..I even didn;t i couldn't put my finger where it had to be..Didn't understand you posting at all..As you noticed so well... She did!!

We are feeling a lot...and sometimes we are feeling victimized again ..and sometimes we are..But a lot of times it's only in our heads... Do we make things up??? No way!!!
Do you see things that aren't there..No you don't..But I think that what is happening here is a mis communication....
I can relate to what Jan is saying and meaning and I , ofcourse ..., can relate to you... clearly!!!

If I put myself in Jans shoes and go over all the postings... I have to be honest and tell you what my eyes and heart see then; be carefull Segaya for you are speaking now for somebody else who didn't give permission to do so!!!.>( keep that in mind too Sapphira, I do this on my own, so if I am wrong , I am the only one who is wrong and to blame oke...)
What if I was a person who didn't experience what a abusive youth really means to somebody's live..... look with new eyes to what is written over these few months between the women of the pinky triangle! What would I see?...How would I responed? ..or not!!.... Let's do this shall we Sapphira...together?

I would read it all and be stunned..not able to think even.. Because in my wildest dreams and nightmares I could't make this up. For no one child has to live like that. It would make me worried about all others who lived that way and are still living that way..it will paralize me even... For there is so much going on without me and so many people even knowing about.... These things are not small, not to notice because you look easely over it,..The things these women talk about is plane torture...!!
it would give me pain in the heart as I am too one of the people who is standing by and do not know what to do, say ,help, reach out ..for what do I have to offer ..I don't know any of these things....And nothing in the wolrd could make me be prepared for what I read here..this is no a third world child that is far away..No, this is right in front of me.happening daily and those three women speak openly about it.... The only thing I can do is read it..aducate myself this way. cry for the children they were and be proud of the women they have become! Aducate others about it and offer my help in any way I can... Or... walk away from it!

There is one of the three women who has my special attention for the others are just a bit further on the way.. Seem stronger and not so delicate. This one is just starting to reach out, Just discovered what she is dealing with, namely psychopath mother and grandfather...Now this psychopath subject is something I do know a little about.. But not the way these three women do..Not by far....
So I keep reading. Sometimes, but rarely, adding some questions but always about things on the outside of the confersations.I react on socks that are named, or geneaology for that is so save I can't harm anyone that way...I think!!
What I don't know..And probably can't know, is that people who have suffered so very much are not hardend by live..they are instead very very sensible... very touchy about things concerning them being around forinstance. Picking up signals they learned about in they're youth..And I just didn't know....
I keep on the save side and not say too much ..and now this special lady who is so delicate is thinking I ignore her..Don't want her.. And the opposit is true..I like her so very much, I love her courage, her stemina, her fighting back to life. Her thoughts and the very nice way she can put them into words..sentences.stories ,so clear everybody can understand them. But I am so afraid to trigger something wrong by saying something stupid or out of the topic!!!
I am not sure of what to do.....

Now sapphira..I hope you get the same picture I got thinking about all this!
What I think is this...
Maybe ...just maybe, we do expect to much from other people..and maybe that is what is happening here on the forum;
Ohh yes, we do know other people can't relate in the details of our lives. Not even with the obvious things. There are people in this world that are never beaten..Never had a parents face above them, purple with anger and hate. Not knowing what hunger is or not being able to relate with others, because they always played with there friends!
The funny(!!) thing is that we do expect people to understand our feelings....But..how can they??? This sensetivity is so rare..So connected to our lives, youths, to our special needs...There is really no way for anybody outside these experiences to follow us there....
So....

Be sensible in feeling and read Jans posting to you where she is appologizing and explaining what has happend and do feel if she is meaning every word she is writing to you...For I did And I am confinced she is for real!!!

Please . please ,please concider again and stay???
No I am not begging.
I am pleding for you to stay where you belong..With us..in the little pinky triangle...
With people who love you, care about you and certainly don't want to loose contact with you.
Please believe me as I asure you Jan and Dianna are very loving people who do this from they're hearts and nothing is pressuring them to do it! it is really because they care..
What can I say or do more dear Sapphira..I hope you undertand completely what I want to say and make clear...
We are not the easiest people to deal with, with all our experiences and feelings..consider that please and give Jan a break for she so diserves it!!!
And we just don't want to loose contact with you...
Love, love, love and more love coming your way!!! Segaya

Oh, Segaya, I just read the above and I feel so bad for you! It's a terrible pain to feel excluded, and I don't want you to feel that way. I believe that Jan is very compassionate and intuitive, and she, having had the fortune of not suffering the damage we did, knows when to step back, so to speak, and wait for the fellow sufferers to take the lead, and speak from their own experiences. It's amazing that someone who didn't grow up like this would run this board, and I assure you she feels as deeply for you as for any of us! I think it's good to have administrators who don't police the place.

Maybe Segaya and I have been hogging you! We would all miss you so much if you stayed away. I've benefited from your viewpoints and feelings and descriptions. You were so right about me having to step into the shadows to write what I did, but it was worth it of course, for your sake.

I know the feeling of being excluded; I've been on non-related boards (movies, girly stuff, etc.,) and sometimes I would see all these answers to other posts but nothing about mine. Having been rejected all my life, I took it personally and it really hurt! Please don't feel that what you say doesn't precipitate an answer; it's very meaningful and very important and extremely helpful to us. I wonder if the increased sensitivity is a side effect of the "earth shaking up" for you. Sometimes that can happen during periods of significant change. Unfortunately, what uninjured people wouldn't even notice, resonates painfully through us.

Please do reconsider and stay with us. I would miss you so much, as would the others, not because you are just a "sounding board', but because you are an intelligent, interesting and good woman, who has a viewpoint and message that is valuable to us all.

I hope to hear from you soon, and be good to yourself.

Pinky hugs and love,

Lady Crown

Dear Everyone,

I'm sorry that I over edited what I wrote and left the final copy giving you all the impression I was going to disappear for good. I need to gather myself because I know I'm being triggered and need to deal with that stuff. My brain is in total overload at the moment and I read and re-read your posts and there are things you are saying that make sense and I understand and know where you are coming from. It's just that only a small part is actually going in because of the overload. So much of what you say is valid and valuable. I just can't fully absorb it right now. My brain is in another place from my feelings to a degree. With all that has happened over the last two weeks I have been very aware of needing to rest as much as possible and the shift going on. But it's never the ones we prepare for that get us, is it?

If I didn't feel safe with you all I would not have said anything at all. I have never, and I really mean never, said anything. There would just have been dust. So I needed to step back a bit so as to not pull totally back. One part of me that jumps on bare back and disappears from burning bridges. But another part of me seriously doesn;t want to do that this time. Not because I have given up burning my bridges but because I know that - or let me honest, part of me knows and the other is willing to take a chance on maybe, just maybe. Well, you know what I mean.

There are your loving comments and it's like I am so dried out like a prune wrinkled desert that no matter how much water f love gets put on me, I know some will get lost in run off because I'm too dried out to absorb it. Then there are your thoughts, and the part of me that really understand and knows what you are saying and I want to respond to these. Then there is another part of me that is only able to say what she perceived, and I do need to explain that better too. And then there is just the fact that I am even still communicating - that I even put it out and that I put it out because I feel a sense of trust!! Oh my god. That scares me and is such a relief to feel too. And there is this response - such a huge response that scares me because it is so caring and I am so not used to this. And then there is the fact that in this response is so much understanding of the fragilities and hypersenitivites and fears and where and why these are as they are. There is acknowledgement of these and also questioning of these. I feel so bad that I upset you all like this.

This is everywhere and I really don't know if it makes sense because I can't read my own post any better than yours at the moment, but I generally get the gist of what you are saying and I know that I will keep writing, and I will respond. Just that I won't be able to do that very fast. I also feel that if I clarify myself a little more that hopefully I will make more sense. Please know that it is very hard for me to step any further with this right now. I do feel stretched internally a very long way with it. Just overload and the internal conflict between the sunset cowgirl and - well, I can't even see her/say her/ but the 'other part'. I'm sure you will know what I mean.

Please understand I will of course look at things from another perspective but right now I'm still trying to deal with all that has and is coming up then and even in all the incredible response and care.

Ok. I so hope this comes out as I mean, for the sake of clarity only. These are just my feelings, and reason isn't much to do with it. I just found it really hard when you Segaya and you Lady Crown each got a large wonderful post, one after the other and then a short while later you both got another similar post and the new people who came also got one. I know in other posts we were mentioned together but it was the individual ones that I was referring to, just recently. I don't mean to drag on, I'm just hoping to clarify the basis for my feelings, on one level of course. The reason I just wanted to pull back a bit is because I know it is my trigger and I know the delicate state I'm in right now and I know I ought to understand from another point of view, and I will. But right now I'm just overloaded with myself and I need to look at this in me, to clear my mind/heart/space to see/understand/respond in return.

There is so much richness and gifts and growing and learning and challenging here. It makes me cry. It is such a huge adjustment in myself to BElong somewhere! The longing to BE some where.

Another layer: actually I don't know the words yet. And I'm feeling to you Jan about this. This in myself and then I can bring this new learning forward.I just need to proceed in the unknown a bit and perhaps it wil appear.

There's just so much. Segaya, because you said about this I have to say: Last night, after writing to you, I went to bed and my last thought was, gee I had become a really tough person. Hard as nails in certain ways. Because that is what it took, at times. But last night I went to sleep knowing that I didn;t want to be around people or situations that required this of me. This morning I got up at 3am with all these thoughts, cried for 2 hours, realised I was getting overwhelmed and wrote that post.

Vulnerability. That is it. That's it. New word-feeling connection. I just need to go right now but I will be back. I can't write another word.
Love
Sapphira.

Hi Sapphira

I'm so pleased you have posted but I feel so sorry that your mind is going through so much turmoil. You recently opened Pandora's Box and all the terrible things you have endured are now floating all around and you can't grab them and get them back in the box and out of view. You see them all around you and now you have to face them whether or not you can cope each day. I suppose there will be good days and bad days.
You have been incredibly strong but now you must feel you have made yourself 'vulnerable' by opening up to the extent you have and in such a short space of time, your strength will be heavily tested for a while.

Please don't feel you have to respond to any posts until you are ready but I do hope you keep reading so you know we are all still here waiting for you. There isn't a day goes by that I don't think about all the members even the ones who haven't posted for years. I would love to know if they have found the peace of mind they were looking for and they just don't need our support any more. Silence doesn't always mean that no-one cares.

I see you as such a self sufficient person that I hold back from giving you advice, I feel you are the one who could advise me. I am full of admiration that you are the person you are with great intelligence and insight. I didn't understand how vulnerable you really are as you have such a courageous personna.

I have heard it said that we have one mouth and two ears for a reason and was putting that into practice. Sometimes we just say too much and it's not necessary, listening is often the best thing to do. We can then go away and take the information with us and take time to think about what has been said and what we can do when the time is right to speak.
Also maybe you can allow yourself to ask for help if you ever need it as sometimes we don't like to offer if it hasn't been asked. It feels presumptuous to offer advice to someone who has more knowledge than ourselves when it hasn't been requested.

Perhaps we can help you grab those things that have got out of the box and store them for you? Maybe we can dispose of them for you when you decide they are finished with.

Take care of yourself and please let us know how your are from time to time.

Regards
jan