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#15626 - 07/18/13 10:43 AM Female Psychopaths
Dianne E. Offline

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Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2578
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We don't have a dedicated thread about Female Psychopaths.

Although they say there are far fewer than male I take issue with that for the following reasons.

The statistics were done many years ago and extrapulated from the prison population.

I think that female Psychopaths can fly under the radar more easily and not get reported.

I also feel that perhaps male victims are not as likely to discuss this kind of relationship that goes way wrong.

We have a couple of interesting threads here that I will post below for your reading and will move over posts from our newest member discussing a female Psychopath.

The Female Psychopath

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#15627 - 07/18/13 10:50 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 30
I have noticed a dearth or reports of female Psychopaths. I married one. She put on a good act. Kept it up for four and a half years, in fact, though I've recently become aware of a journal she kept showing that she was biding her time, practicing how to emote, taking creepy notes about people and emotions. I broke up with her last year but she's left a path of destruction since then so twisted people she's...played with have come to me looking for answers, maybe because I bounced back pretty well, including her most recent ex-boyfriend, an old high school buddy of mine. It's a long story, but I understand only we - those targeted by them - really understand what getting romantically involved with a Psychopath is like. I want to help any way I can, and if it screws her over, so much the better. This one is great at uniting people - against her. They also have filled in some gaps for me that make it all make sense and leave me 100% convinced of what I was dealing with.

I was with my ex-Psychopath for eight years. We were married for three. She sold herself as a nice country girl next door who worked really hard but, gosh darnit, life just kept not giving her a chance and she couldn't catch a break. Really, that's all she needed, just a chance. I read the description of the covetous Psychopath here, and that is her spiel almost to the letter. If only she'd just had better parents. If only her brother wasn't so crazy. If only her mom wasn't such a narcissist. If only her dad would have paid for her to get a higher education.

Right.

I do admit to feeling a bit stupid. The first four and a half years were great. She proved mostly worthy of trust. She always had my back. Never let me down. I am a tough nut to crack and she knew that. She also knew that once she had earned my loyalty I would be loathe to let it go, that I'd wait for the good person to come back. The only slip she made was in front of my best friend from college, who advised me to get rid of her. I did have a gut feeling something wasn't right; her brother suffers from severe mental illness and I could tell her mom did as well. But I felt bad for her and she'd never given me a reason to doubt her. The first time I realized what I saw - or rather, didn't see - in her eyes was during my third hospital visit in the third year of our marriage. I think she was trying to kill me and make it look like an accident, though she inexplicably saved my life the first time her negligence contributed to an emergency room visit. Probably wishes she'd cashed in then and there. She'd once again smashed her car when it happened. She was always doing things like that, smashing things, then passing it off as no big deal. Not normal, little things, like plates or glasses. I mean, like, accidentally ramming the house. Or hitting other things with the car. Like other cars. And light posts. But I digress. I'd been having anxiety and panic problems. The doctors took a bad scan of my heart (I was 31 and working out 4-6 days a week. In general I was and still am in great shape though I had an "inexplicable" blood pressure and heart rate problem that had cropped up. It lasted six months, or until I filed for divorce, and once she was gone my vitals miraculously normalized, though it took forever for the emotional hurt to fade away and I was plagued with doubts from all the gas lighting.)

So she smashes the car and doesn't have adequate insurance. Without my knowledge she had switched from full coverage to get cheaper insurance. She regularly crunched the car, it was pretty beat up. Every time I told her to get full coverage and she would get all indignant about me telling her what to do. So she said no she didn't have coverage and I knew the car was totaled. By this time she had been having "emergencies" that cost a lot of money, of course, and had drained most of what we had. We would basically have a useless car that she still owed a year's worth of payments on. It made my heart hurt. I took her to the hospital - she never got injured during these wrecks - and reported my chest pains, as I had been instructed to by my cardiologist. At the time I had gotten a fresh life insurance policy and had scheduled a heart cath where they expected to find a blockage in my arteries. My family wanted the procedure done as soon as possible but the exspath was okay with delaying it until after the life insurance kicked in despite the perceived danger. But I digress again. The E.R. doctor took one look at my vitals and wouldn't let me leave. They hit me with a dose of morphine, and it slowed down my brain. I am fairly certain the ex-spath was creating emergencies every few weeks on purpose. It kept me off balance. Kept me from really seeing her and what she was doing. Which is to say she was never home. Often came home late. Worked two jobs, though we really only needed her to work one. I found it in the aftermath that it was because she used the restaurant to find hookups. Also meetup.com because it's less conspicuous than signing up for a dating site to cheat. This woman was cheating with anyone she could find - high school kids, drop outs, carnies, coworker spouses, coworkers, restaurant workers, girls, guys, online meetups. She has broken up marriages and ruined lives. I have an admitted hero complex so she kept me busy by causing problems for me to "rescue" her from and then feigning she was happy. Meanwhile she told anyone who would listen monstrous stories about me so they wouldn't tell me about her cheating (she did it openly in front of some people and boasted) while telling me no one liked me. People would invite us out; she would tell me it was girls only. That kind of thing. She had me very isolated - moving across the country with her to a place where we didn't know anyone played right into her plans - but only because I let it happen. I had that image of her she'd constructed and I wanted that person back.

Anyways, I'm by this time fully aware that something is very wrong with the relationship and contemplating divorce. But that morphine hit from the doc stopped everything, cleared my head. And she was sitting there looking at me, but not with concern. No, it was more like excitement. Like how she looked when she was eager to go to a party or something. And her eyes - they were like ice beams. Cold. Calculating. Empty. I could almost hear her thinking of the sympathy she would get if I died and, oh, what to do with all that wonderful life insurance money? I don't know if God spoke to me then but I heard a voice that proclaimed "OH...SHE'S GOTTA GO." It scared the hell out of me. In retrospect, what followed shouldn't have been a surprised. But that was when I knew. I saw it in her eyes. There was nothing there. And when released to her care after the heart cath, after I came close to bleeding to death when the plug in my femoral artery came loose in the hospital, she really showed her true colors by abandoning me to look after myself (after she got me to buy her a new car, of course) so she could meddle in the affairs of her "friends" and cause some trouble, her favorite activity. We separated sooner after visiting a marriage counselor, who told me I was fine but asked her to fill out some paperwork assessments. I called back and asked him why and he suggested we speak privately. We met at his office and he said, "I think your wife is a Psychopath but I need you to honestly answer some questions for me to make a better assessment." She had behaved oddly and overly emotionally during the session and he'd noticed her responses were abnormal. I looked into it myself, read the "Psychopath Next Door" by Martha Stout per his suggestion. It's taken me a year to kind of fill in all that was missing and confirm in my own mind that yes, she is a full on Psychopath and the person I loved never existed. She was just a construct to trick me into a loveless marriage to be exploited. The few times I am forced to talk to her because of that car, it's funny now, but it's almost like she has a Psychopath guidebook in how to write out her response.

1. Be stern and condescending.
2. Write as formally as possible.
3. Fish for information I can use to cause trouble.
4. Try to start an argument without looking like that's what I'm trying to do.
5. Gloat about something where I am still in control.
6. Wait for entertaining response.

She never gets the last part. I usually send one line or two lines stating the facts. She sends some elaborate reply. I either say nothing or send back one or two lines.

And I know it pisses her off lol

Felt good to share that. Thanks.

DN

Post Script: I chose the name Darth Nollidge because I had to go to the dark side to go up against her. She played sweet and innocent victim, even to me, until she realized I'd discovered all the cheating and lying she'd been doing. She may be a predator, but this prey can bite back. My ex-spath spent so much time studying things about me that she never actually got to know me. She seemed stunned that I am quite capable of being ruthless when it is necessary. All she got out of me was old furniture I didn't want and some freezer burnt food I let her take; a far cry from the house (I'm sitting in it right now) and the big alimony checks I am sure she thought she'd get.

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#15628 - 07/18/13 10:52 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
I know that one so well - my Psychopath also spend a few years trying to get my trust. It must have been a "level up" in THE GAME - to get someone who is not trusting easily and who's reserved and private. I remember the moment after he finally got me to the point when I said I trusted him (though it was not even completely true) and then he immediately betrayed that trust. I didn't know what hit me because I thought my trust was important for him, he was working so long for it. Now I realise - it was just obtaining something in a game, it was not because of me, it was because he wanted to show himself he can manipulate somebody like me to trusting him. And when I complained about his betrayal he just said: "I don't care whether you trust me or not. You should prove that I can trust you". It was one of his most typical psychopathic behaviours ever.

And all the other stuff sounds so familiar too - the gaslighting, telling you how other people dislike you, telling others bad things about you behind your back, bragging about cheating - it really does not matter what sex, shape or colour they come in - the Psychopaths are like a species. The only difference is mine was not destructive to objects. The rest fits very well.

I was sick for a few months after we split (and obviously all the time in a relationship as soon as he started to show his real colours). I slept all day and couldn't sleep nights and was tired all the time and doctors couldn't find a reason. And the panic attacks and anxiety as well - I still have them occasionally, though not as bad as before.

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#15629 - 07/18/13 10:54 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: crocodile]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 30
Hi, crocodile.

I've read some of your posts. Your guy sounds like a real piece of work. Then again, they all are. Mine also had this "deer in the headlights" look she would pull any time she was insisting that she was telling the truth. I think I was targeted for a similar reason: I am well-liked, come from a good family, I am reserved, I was finishing college when we met. In short I had everything she felt life had cheated her of, something she often said. But no one believed her gas-lighting horror stories after meeting me. When we broke up many showed up and offered support (and asked if I knew what was wrong with her.) I am very lucky in this respect. Her smear-campaign backfired big time. I do still have HBP and mild anxiety but I am back to hitting the gym five days a week and feel much better.

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#15630 - 07/18/13 10:56 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
Exactly, the guy is basically hated by almost everyone who knows him and I was really surprised how many people came to me telling me " Hey, be happy you're rid of this guy". Some told me straightaway he's a psycho. I know it does not seem to happen very often to other people and I thought he'd be able to sell his victimisation story but turns out he had to run.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: DarthNollidge
The few times I am forced to talk to her because of that car, it's funny now, but it's almost like she has a Psychopath guidebook in how to write out her response.

1. Be stern and condescending.
2. Write as formally as possible.
3. Fish for information I can use to cause trouble.
4. Try to start an argument without looking like that's what I'm trying to do.
5. Gloat about something where I am still in control.
6. Wait for entertaining response.


That's exactly it:). Mine was also using a trick when we were together - he kept everything I wrote to him but with me he only spoke in private, never anything written. This way he thought he can pretend that he was not even involved with me and it was all in my head but he underestimated that other people have eyes and ears too.
I occasionally have to e-mail him because of work and I always get a super dry answer and very often formed in a offensive way - I usually ignore it but lately I just forwarded the answer to our boss and she got really pissed at him. Basically he requests stuff from other people, never says thank you and then tells you off that you're not doing things fast enough and so on.

A lot of people refuse to do anything for him anymore because of this and he's still convinced he's so good with people. And he's also occasionally throwing in a "nice" sentence or two like he's inviting me back to contact him, not openly but all of a sudden forgets we're not friendly anymore. I guess it's his way of feeling if he can still control me by playing a single person bad cop/good cop game but nope:). Plus he's current GF is contacting me which I find really weird, I think he's manipulating her to do so. She has super bad feelings about him but she's hopelessly in love:(.

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#15631 - 07/18/13 10:59 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: crocodile]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted By: crocodile
Exactly, the guy is basically hated by almost everyone who knows him and I was really surprised how many people came to me telling me " Hey, be happy you're rid of this guy". Some told me straightaway he's a psycho. I know it does not seem to happen very often to other people and I thought he'd be able to sell his victimisation story


Got the same thing. Was astounded. Everyone loved her, according to her. Turns out she is widely despised. So much that other people took more joy in things going badly for her than me. I was just trying to let it go lol, had to tell them to stop telling me about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: crocodile
That's exactly it:). Mine was also using a trick when we were together - he kept everything I wrote to him but with me he only spoke in private, never anything written.


Yeah...she tried that. I was like no, email only. Because I was sending her thinly veiled boasting of cheating to my lawyer to build a fool-proof case against her in court. By the time I was done, she'd agreed to so much in writing (and couldn't afford a lawyer- the woman is eternally broke) she had no room to maneuver. And she very obviously feared my female lawyer for some reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: crocodile
This way he thought he can pretend that he was not even involved with me and it was all in my head but he underestimated that other people have eyes and ears too. I occasionally have to e-mail him because of work and I always get a super dry answer and very often formed in a offensive way - I usually ignore it but lately I just forwarded the answer to our boss and she got really pissed at him. Basically he requests stuff from other people, never says thank you and then tells you off that you're not doing things fast enough and so on. A lot of people refuse to do anything for him anymore because of this and he's still convinced he's so good with people. And he's also occasionally throwing in a "nice" sentence or two like he's inviting me back to contact him, not openly but all of a sudden forgets we're not friendly anymore. I guess it's his way of feeling if he can still control me by playing a single person bad cop/good cop game but nope:). Plus he's current GF is contacting me which I find really weird, I think he's manipulating her to do so. She has super bad feelings about him but she's hopelessly in love:(.



You work with this guy? Big time ouch. I found it weird my ex's boyfriend (now ex-boyfriend) contacted me but luckily he's also come around to what she is due to his own research and resources and it does give me some satisfaction knowing I am disrupting her breakup games - that she is losing them and it's infuriating her - while also helping an old buddy get away from her. Not going to say it doesn't bring back bad memories but some of this is the closure I really needed to move on.

I don't envy you working with this guy, though. That's got to be tough. Hope you're not in the same office. Or that he's at least stopped his game. I do hate admitting this but it is also nice to know it isn't just me. She does the same things with any guy she gets involved with, only she no longer is taking years to go psycho on them. But same M.O. Same lies when she cheats, etc.

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#15632 - 07/18/13 11:01 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
Did work. He moved workplaces and towns:) but he's got some unfinished business still with our boss, hopefully not for long.

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#15633 - 07/18/13 11:04 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: crocodile]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 30
Wish mine would move. The worst, though, is that the guys she was sleeping with, she was indiscriminate. I mean, greasy, scummy dudes, some of whom she had the nerve to bring around. What kind of a man looks you in the eye and shakes your hand while doing/having done your wife? One of them even pretended to be a pal when we broke up. Just found out about him. Needless to say, done with any people like that. He swears he didn't sleep with her but it was him she called the night she didn't come home, his house she stayed at, and he avoided meeting me for a long time.

She also brags about her sexual conquest of him. I suppose she could be lying, but the factors add up. Debating whether to try and get confirmation or just let it go, assume the worst since worst-case scenario was barely scratching the surface with everything else, and cut him and the people who knew and hid it from me out of my life.

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#15634 - 07/18/13 11:06 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted By: DarthNollidge
Wish mine would move. The worst, though, is that the guys she was sleeping with, she was indiscriminate. I mean, greasy, scummy dudes, some of whom she had the nerve to bring around. What kind of a man looks you in the eye and shakes your hand while doing/having done your wife? One of them even pretended to be a pal when we broke up. Just found out about him. Needless to say, done with any people like that. He swears he didn't sleep with her but it was him she called the night she didn't come home, his house she stayed at, and he avoided meeting me for a long time. She also brags about her sexual conquest of him. I suppose she could be lying, but the factors add up. Debating whether to try and get confirmation or just let it go, assume the worst since worst-case scenario was barely scratching the surface with everything else, and cut him and the people who knew and hid it from me out of my life.


I had that stage when I wanted to find out exactly what lies he told and whom he really slept with and so on. But it does not make sense. I'd not be bitter at the guys, you've no idea how she could have manipulated them, irrespective whether they're nice dudes or the opposite and what were they really supposed to do after the fact? I've seen my Psychopath playing games with others, I knew when he was trying to get a girl to sleep with him if I saw him but I also was not around the whole time. The web of lies and manipulations is so huge that it makes no sense try to trace the threads - just break out and be free.

Mine told me he didn't sleep with a girl when I asked him about it but I know he was attracted to her, saw him around her behaving like the hunter and I know that they spent a night in a hotel together. Honestly, at this point: who cares? I know he slept with half of the town and I'm only happy I didn't get any venereal disease from him (I'd check that if I were you). Plus I also know my Psychopath was constantly claiming this or that woman is soooo much into him, they would jump to bed with him immediately and I know often that was not true and the girl in question would never even notice him. Psychopaths are also narcissists and they often think they can do everything while in reality they're not that great.

They only manage to convince some people about it. After we broke up I've realised I was the one with the best opinion about him in every respect (intelligence, skills, knowledge, attractiveness you name it) from practically everyone. This is the part of the psychological manipulation - it alters reality for you.

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#15635 - 07/18/13 11:08 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: crocodile]
DarthNollidge Offline
member

Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted By: crocodile
I was the one with the best opinion about him in every respect (intelligence, skills, knowledge, attractiveness you name it) from practically everyone. This is the part of the psychological manipulation - it alters reality for you.


Funny how that works. I asked someone I trust - his sister - who confirmed my true gut feeling: she wanted him and he rejected her, so she lies about it. Now THAT makes sense. I get the feeling she didn't have as many affairs as she boasted about, simply because a lot of people she claimed totally wanted her actually despise her and wouldn't touch her. And, of course I took an STD test. Came back clean (Thank God.) I am just happy this didn't go like 30 years or something, I am still young (32) and have plenty of time to get with a nice girl and start a family :-) I am so happy I didn't have kids with the nutbag. She would've been a nightmare, the kids would probably be as crazy as she is (it obviously runs in her family), and the courts are geared to favor women regardless of psychopathy in that regard - she would've been basically handed custody and half my salary (which she would've squandered on everything but the kids) to sit around and be crazy. Bullet dodged there.

But I do understand about the altered reality. She painted the picture of what's probably in her head - that she is very popular around town and well-liked by all while I was not, when the reality was the exact opposite.

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#15637 - 07/18/13 11:12 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted By: DarthNollidge
Originally Posted By: crocodile
I was the one with the best opinion about him in every respect (intelligence, skills, knowledge, attractiveness you name it) from practically everyone. This is the part of the psychological manipulation - it alters reality for you.

I get the feeling she didn't have as many affairs as she boasted about, simply because a lot of people she claimed totally wanted her actually despise her and wouldn't touch her. (...) I am just happy this didn't go like 30 years or something, I am still young (32) and have plenty of time to get with a nice girl and start a family :-) I am so happy I didn't have kids with the nutbag.


Same for me, some people are simply disgusted by this guy - this is the phrase I've heard very often since we broke up and people stated to talk to me again (I was incredibly isolated and just as in your case - I sort of did it myself). I didn't end up pregnant or anything, that would be a disaster - he'd probably leave me with this (which would probably be the best thing to do) but the idea that I could have a psychopathic child gives me chills. That's by far the worst that can happen:(. It certainly runs in his family, his grandpa was a child molester.

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#15638 - 07/18/13 11:15 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: crocodile]
xela007 Offline
member

Registered: 06/13/13
Posts: 116
Sorry I just posted this earlier on another thread - I didn't know there is a female psychopaths thread open yet.

"We don't see many stories about female psychopaths because women psychopaths in general are very sexual and materialistic (they depend 100% on their husband) and appear as normal women in society. They more of the "Sexual Pyschopath" that dominates by spreading their legs wide and emptying the man's wallet (well this is one of the characteristic) not all materialistic women are psychopaths.

I am aware of one girl that seemingly IS a psychopath - what I notice in her case is that she talks as if she's holding a conference, she is a lawyer (ironically dead broke) she does not have any plans for her future, never had, has mentally ill friends, she is utterly and disgustingly attached to her mother and father, she would be dead without them, she is the output of probably a psychopath mom or dad (I am not sure which one of them is a psychopath, but I believe her mom is). Even though she is a lawyer she goes out in public dressed in dirty clothes, she is damn stupid, makes you nervous in 1 minute, it doesn't take more, she is very agitated, has a smirk on her face, when she laughs it's more of a devil's laugh, she is sort of forcing to laugh, she always talks about life, morality, and rules and never talks about life/her life.

I forgot to mention that she's 30.

She is a money predator, materialistic as you've never seen before (she doesn't have any luck though, too short and ugly) She judges everyone around her including her parents.
"

XeXe


Edited by xela007 (07/18/13 11:29 AM)
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#15639 - 07/18/13 11:20 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: xela007]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
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Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2578
Loc: United States
Thanks XeXe, was busy copying things to this new thread; )

Here are some interesting threads at the forum you might also find interesting.

It will be nice to have things combined to one reading/posting area as we get a lot of people who come here to read so hopefully this will encourage them to come forward and join the conversation.

The Female Psychoapth Thread

Can't Take it Anymore
This is a very detailed conversation by our member NoOne and is a very interesting look into what marriage to a female Psychopath is like with children involved.

Di



Edited by Dianne E. (07/18/13 11:23 AM)
Edit Reason: added link

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#15640 - 07/18/13 11:31 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
xela007 Offline
member

Registered: 06/13/13
Posts: 116
Thanks Dianne ;-)

Going to read it, I didn't read much about female psychopathy but can just imagine how the feminine version is like.

Xe
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#15641 - 07/18/13 11:35 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
crocodile Offline
member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
By the way, my Psychopath, although a male, was often perceived by people as very feminine or geyish and he so much reminds me of what DarthNollidge has to say about his Psychopath. Maybe there are actually more sex specific characteristics...

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#15645 - 07/18/13 11:52 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: crocodile]
xela007 Offline
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Registered: 06/13/13
Posts: 116
Originally Posted By: crocodile
By the way, my Psychopath, although a male, was often perceived by people as very feminine or geyish and he so much reminds me of what DarthNollidge has to say about his Psychopath. Maybe there are actually more sex specific characteristics...


He was probably way too charming to the point where he looked like a woman rather than a man?

Not all men psychopath are charming, I wanted to point this out - the psychopaths in our family are not charming at all. Their look and facial gestures are so blunt to the point where they seem as they want to kill you or something, just by looking at you. My brother is not charming in his behavior either, he is more of the devil, very manipulative, demanding and sadistic (well with his girlfriend anyway) because no one has ever allowed him to behave sadistically not me and not my mom.

I do know quite a few people though that I believe are psychopath - they can be damn charming and very social, unlike my psychopath brother (he's rather anti-social and not charming at all)

A man is more serious by appearance not wearing a false grin on his damn face all day.



Edited by xela007 (07/18/13 12:01 PM)
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#15646 - 07/18/13 12:00 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: xela007]
crocodile Offline
member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
No, he's not grinning but he's super charming when he wants something from you. And he cares about his looks a lot, wears clothes that make him look in some eyes geyish, shaves his legs sometimes (I actually like when a guy takes care of himself but to some people it was too much) and in general feels a bit feminine, it's hard to describe.

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#15647 - 07/18/13 12:03 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: crocodile]
xela007 Offline
member

Registered: 06/13/13
Posts: 116
Haha, I shaved my legs once :-)

I was feeling quite a bit of shame, since I am a bit skinny and it does look gay

Well, the psychopath I know doesn't shave his legs, but he can go from wearing shitted underwear to wearing Dolce & Galbana clothes and armani shoes, taking into consideration that he's dead broke most of the time. Whenever he has money, he gambles, he gambles and drinks.


Edited by xela007 (07/18/13 12:04 PM)
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#15655 - 07/18/13 08:37 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: xela007]
Dianne E. Offline

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Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2578
Loc: United States
Hi Darth, just read through your story in detail. Very scary indeed, thankfully you followed your instincts. I have seen a couple of shows where female Psychopaths have actually gotten caught killing their partners. I have also often wondered how many of them did it and got away with it. Poison seems to be the female weapon of choice. There is a type of poison which I won't broadcast that has only in the last years been one that there was a test for. I think if they do it right and there isn't a family to squawk to the police I bet a lot of them get away with it.

Glad you have joined us, plan to keep this thread open to discussion about female Psychopaths since we rarely have the opportunity to hear from victims of women Psychopath's.

I hope you can find peace and a loving spouse and family of your own. Luckily you have youth on your side. You are very right in saying it is lucky you never had children with her. I am remembering other posts over the years regarding female Psychopaths and will dig them up and post them here.

Di

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#15656 - 07/18/13 09:56 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Thanks, Dianne. Tip of the iceberg. I will share when I have enough time to spell it all out but I'll probably have to split it up. She went through four very distinct stages with me - love bombing, building trust, isolation, gas-lighting. We never got to the next steps in her plan because I ended things. I found out the truth about my psychopath because she alienated so many people. I tend to think of her as a socio path because she lacked charisma and cared little about her physical appearance. She didn't do well past first impressions with most people. My first impression of her was not good, and pretty dead on - I thought she was an arrogant jerk with a grandiose sense of self that her very average looks didn't warrant. She could be really attractive when she put effort into her appearance but this was something she rarely ever did. I disliked her and actively avoided her for months.

But she kept showing up.

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#15657 - 07/19/13 12:55 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
xela007 Offline
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Registered: 06/13/13
Posts: 116
Originally Posted By: Dianne E.
Hi Darth, just read through your story in detail. Very scary indeed, thankfully you followed your instincts. I have seen a couple of shows where female Psychopaths have actually gotten caught killing their partners. I have also often wondered how many of them did it and got away with it. Poison seems to be the female weapon of choice. There is a type of poison which I won't broadcast that has only in the last years been one that there was a test for. I think if they do it right and there isn't a family to squawk to the police I bet a lot of them get away with it.

Glad you have joined us, plan to keep this thread open to discussion about female Psychopaths since we rarely have the opportunity to hear from victims of women Psychopath's.

I hope you can find peace and a loving spouse and family of your own. Luckily you have youth on your side. You are very right in saying it is lucky you never had children with her. I am remembering other posts over the years regarding female Psychopaths and will dig them up and post them here.

Di


This might drive someone so paranoid to the point where he'd not eat anything that his spouse cooks for him, it's not even funny. Psychopath's I believe have an average intelligence and can look up for some perfect poison that there is no test for and probably never will.

This reminded me of a case in our distant family where an uncle of mine has married a women (that has killed her husband) by poisoning his coffee, she got away though. Everybody knows he was poisoned.
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#15660 - 07/19/13 06:21 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: xela007]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Mine didn't cook for me. She didn't do much of anything domestic. And when she baked, she would make tons of treats to take to others and leave none for me, the idea being to give people the impression she was a great wife who baked treats and such and, poor her, she had spent hours in the kitchen and her mean ol' husband didn't appreciate it. Meanwhile, I would look for some cookies or pastries and find nothing in the house but the lingering aroma of sugary delights. I would call her, and she'd say, "Oh, I didn't know you wanted any."

Right.

So, no, she was too lazy to poison me but I wouldn't put it past her if she had been smart enough to think of it. When the marriage was crumbling, suddenly she wanted to cook for me, etc. I said no thanks and continued handling my own meals. With fresh food. Wasn't going to give her the chance. I am quite sure others like her have done it and gotten away with it, though. In our society, women get away with more as long as it isn't overtly illegal.

A good example is when a female teacher sleeps with a student, the student will get secret high-fives from his peers and maybe even a private pat on the back from Dad for scoring with her. She will lose her job and get a slap on the wrist. If a male teacher does the same thing, he is branded a rapist and a predator. The female student will be a victim and will be coddled. Might even get a movie deal from Lifetime. He will not only lose his job, he will serve a lot of hard time and be sensationalized in the news as a monster. The flip side to it is that the female student may have been the true predator all along. Not excusing it, responsible adults should never do these things, just an observation about the different way our society handles men and women.

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#15661 - 07/19/13 07:20 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
crocodile Offline
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It was really smart of you to get rid of her when you still could. A lot of people here, me included didn't leave before they got seriously physically and/or psychologically damaged.
I also never had a good opinion about my Psychopath, I used to tell him even that he is a coward, has a stone heart, has no feelings and is a selfish a..hole. I really did, sometimes as a joke, sometimes telling him of for one or the other behaviour. He always only smirked and never denied it - he sometimes even behaved like this was something to be proud of. I knew he was a piece of work but I never suspected there is really nothing there, nothing that can ever improve and change.

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#15662 - 07/19/13 07:51 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
Dianne E. Offline

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Quote:
Not excusing it, responsible adults should never do these things, just an observation about the different way our society handles men and women.


Very true and with the bad statistics out there people think, well less than zero of 1% of all Psychopaths are women and don't they usually wield hatchets, so my oh my couldn't be that little woman. I have a friend whose son is clearly married to a disturbed woman, they are very young, and she whacks him around, and he has no where to go because who would believe a big guy getting beaten by his wife.

Through history if you have ever seen some famous old cases, women can and do some horrific things. We just don't accept that as women they can do these things. The head juror in the Jodie Arias trial that just went on here said when he looked at her he couldn't imagine she would do any harm. That in a nutshell is what people think of women. The same way we (not me but people here in the US) think about race, a white kid walking through a neighborhood doesn't get a second look but a black kid and pull out the guns and shoot him because he "looks suspicious".

It is those very same perceptions that get people in deep trouble.

I can imagine as a male it must be very difficult for people to see your side in the beginning.

So if she didn't cook did you suspect she had anything to do with your heart issues?

Di

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#15663 - 07/19/13 10:34 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
DarthNollidge Offline
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I suspect she had a lot to do with my heart issue (which was a non issue. My heart is perfectly healthy). It was more due to stress than poison. I'll elaborate later. Because her personality is so grating and her behavior so odd and inappropriate, people refer to her as "The Devil" behind her back. Terms like "compulsive liar," "conniving," "trouble-maker," these were common. She only had one person who knew both of us stick by her and that person is still friendly with me. Refused to take sides. Her stories are so unbelievable to anyone who has spent any time around me that people pass them off as her being immature and don't believe them. She grew up in a very small town and has poor social skills. She always had an issue with saying and doing socially unacceptable things around my friends, etc. Her mother is also disordered, which I suspected, so I chalked it up to poor home training but as time went on she never seemed to mature in that regard, no surprise now that I know what she is. Come to think of it one of the red flags should've been that she had no friends when we met. No childhood friends. She attaches to people and claims to be best friends after hanging out with them once. She then attention bombs them. most disappeared after about six months to a year and then she would say terrible things about them if I asked how that person was doing. Anyone else see that with theirs? Anyway, that is how she is perceived - that there is something wrong with her. I'll explain later today how people have told me I am perceived (I learned a lot about my very skewed self-image in the aftermath of this; I'd largely bought into her negative, gas-lighting image of myself) and why I didn't have the trouble you'd think being male in all of this because of it.

And yes, croc, I am lucky I did get rid of her and didn't waste more time. But I thought I could do better than that miserable relationship even before I found out she was a psychopath. I deserve to be treated better. I had no problem telling her this. guess she thought I wouldn't break it off. I'd never broken up with someone before her. always was the one getting dumped. I have strong personal feelings about divorce but sometimes you suck it up and do what you must. Wasn't going to settle for what I know now is the real person. I want a partner, not a dependent, and only stayed in it as long as I did because she 'd built up four and a half years of good will beforehand and I felt she'd earned a chance to screw up and that she could and would redeem herself. Silly me. Like many have reported with men she would show flashes of the love bomber after I got fed up, long enough to get me to back down, then she would go back to being negligent.


Edited by DarthNollidge (07/19/13 11:48 AM)

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#15664 - 07/19/13 10:45 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
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The rebounds of "good times" are typical, mine also did it and that was at the time when he was already telling everyone how horrible I am.

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#15665 - 07/19/13 03:26 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: crocodile]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Originally Posted By: crocodile
It was really smart of you to get rid of her when you still could. A lot of people here, me included didn't leave before they got seriously physically and/or psychologically damaged.


I never said I wasn't damaged :-) I have grown extremely distrustful of women I don't know, especially cute women I think are being too nice. I know they think I am checking them out but what I am really doing is a threat-level assessment: what is her angle? What does she want from me? How will she attempt to manipulate me to get it? Check her eyes, watch how she watches, check out her social prowess, how she moves - is she one of them? Even as I do it I know it's not cool. I am generally considered to be an attractive man, which isn't something I think about a lot - I have ugly duckling syndrome which is what my psychopath preyed upon - but enough people have told me this that I am aware there is truth to it, if that makes sense. After the break up I hurried into dating (big mistake) in an attempt to validate this, that I was a desirable man, and women would react to me the way I wanted but then... I would kind of freak out and excuse myself to get away at the point she made it obvious she was interested in me romantically. I did online dating too but never made it past three or four dates with anyone. I would break it off when I saw any little thing that might be a red flag. Sex? Out of the question. I am not a one night stand kind of guy. I am interested only in meaningful relationships. I knew I had a problem, though. Hard to get into a meaningful relationship when you're that unstable. I knew it was me and not them and I needed to get mentally healthy so that one day I could be part of one.

What I have done is pursue friendships with women as well as men. Very helpful. Over the last six months I have not dated (the right move was to focus on healing) and made some great female friends. They have restored my faith in sugar, spice, and everything nice. I can call text or chat or go have drinks and there is no pressure. I just state my intentions as clearly as possible with the women and make sure I mean what I say - that I just want to be friends. Any more than that, I am not ready, and I am finally okay with admitting that.

And I haven't forgotten there are bad ones out there. I still look for them when I meet new women but I am no longer thinking "evil!" unless they give me a reason to. And I am also now watchful for sociopathic men as well. Friends can screw you over, too. A person's actions will show who they really are regardless of gender. So I look at consistency in that as the benchmark by which they should be measured as a threat. I still do the initial assessment with women, though. I try hard not to look for clues like that but I so far can't help it. I do not want to repeat this experience. The next one could be smarter and more vindictive. I don't trust myself to choose a good woman right now. A little damaged, yes.



Edited by DarthNollidge (07/19/13 04:03 PM)

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#15666 - 07/19/13 03:56 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
Dianne E. Offline

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Quote:
I don't trust myself to choose a good woman right now, either. A little damaged, yes.


Hi Darth, I think that it is very wise to take some time to heal, it would be hard or impossible after any encounter with a Psychopath, yet alone the length that you were with her. Have you had a chance to read the information here about PTSD? It is something that seems to go hand in hand with the aftermath of being involved with a Psychopath. During the exposure with a Psychopath people suffer from PTSD and grow accustomed to some degree, it can seem to feel normal, but after the Psychopath is gone it is really something to think about dealing with.

Don't trust the statistics, there are way more out there than the 1 - 3% you see listed, that study is way old and based on the prison population. It is good, imo to keep a sharp eye out for both men and women like you are doing.

After all, it is very realistic that any people both men or women have to earn a place on the list of what can be called a friend. I think in this society people use the term friend too loosely, a friend is someone to me who is there for you when life turns upside down and when things are going great and don't judge you in between. Working on good boundaries and understanding that PTSD could also be a factor.

Quote:
I still do the initial assessment with women, though. I try hard not to look for clues like that but I so far can't help it.


Personally I think that you are being very healthy, nothing wrong as I see it for keeping a look out for clues. I think it is important to see how people behave in different situations. There is a line between being too suspicious and a healthy dose, in time it will all work out. There is actually a lot to learn from adversity.

I understand very well the ugly duckling syndrome, I have that issue with my weight in particular and looks, have never had a weight problem but I can sometimes see myself as bigger when in reality it isn't true. I recognize it is an issue so I can at least deal with it. Image was a very important factor with my family so it is something that was always there.

Di

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#15667 - 07/19/13 04:13 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Thanks, Di. Me, too. According to my female friends in college I was rated "okay" by the girls in the group until summer before my junior year. When I came back women looked at me differently, including my friends. I asked my best girl/friend what the deal was - I thought they were gawking at pimples or something. Even now I still get more than my share of those - but she said I got cute, grew into my face. Dating picked up a bunch then.

But I sometimes still see myself as the awkward kid who never made it to a homecoming dance, who couldn't get a date to save his life. My ex was very good at playing on that string.


Edited by DarthNollidge (07/19/13 04:41 PM)

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#15668 - 07/19/13 05:17 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
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This is the kind of damage that I think everyone experiences after a relationship with a Psychopath. Mine is just half a year over and I cannot even imagine getting in a relationship. I think I'd beat a poor guy with a stick over the head if he even tried to pick me up. I am supposedly also attractive but was never in a relationship before the Psychopath, at least not in one that would last more than a month. I sometimes think that I'll never be able to get involved with someone "normal" and the Psychopath I don't want to even see.

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#15669 - 07/19/13 05:21 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
crocodile Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dianne E.
Don't trust the statistics, there are way more out there than the 1 - 3% you see listed, that study is way old and based on the prison population. It is good, imo to keep a sharp eye out for both men and women like you are doing.

I don't think it's that many, I would guess this 1-2% is about right. I guess if there would be more the society would have already collapsed.

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#15670 - 07/19/13 05:40 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: crocodile]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Posts: 30
I disagree, croc. I think there are more than the 1 in 25 even from Martha Stout. They are right in front of us, hiding in plain sight. The very smart ones probably stay hidden and are never reported for what they are.

Regarding relationships, we are in agreement. I, too, wonder if only one of them would accept me. After all, I've been left by every woman I've ever loved and the only one who wanted to stick around was an actual psychopath with an agenda that had nothing to do with love. My longest relationship prior to that was a year long. I am also pretty sure my first college girlfriend had narcissistic PD and my only two high school girlfriends both have all the hallmarks of being Psychopaths as well.


Edited by DarthNollidge (07/19/13 07:12 PM)

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#15672 - 07/19/13 07:27 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
Dianne E. Offline

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Croc, look around society is collapsing around us, people are getting robbed by the very institutions we used to trust, the people at the top have to have Psychopath's in their blood to do such horrific things. I could really go on and on, corporate Psychopath's are everywhere. They are running things everywhere you look. If the rest aren't Psychopath's they are very high level N's.

Quote:
The very smart ones probably stay hidden and are never reported for what they are.


That is so true, I am not as concerned with non-socialized ones because they will eventually get caught and tossed in prison, but the socialized ones will wreck thousands upon thousands of lives in their lifetime and never have a day of punishment for their evil.

I know for a fact those statistics are very, very old and modeled after the prison population many years ago. The numbers were extrapolated from there. I asked a top Psychopath evaluator and have no reason to believe he didn't know what he was talking about. Also, I don't think it is just me but anyone who has crossed these Internet doors over the last many years have made the same comments. All you have to do is become aware of what you are looking for and, you will see them.

Darth I know you and I suspect Croc are quite young, too young to think that love will never come your way. Learn to set boundaries now and dream and it will come your way when the time is right. I don't want to say lucky but if you think about it this has been a very sharp curve in the ballpark of life, if you learn from this experience things can be great for you in the future.

I think the end goal would be to not let it damage you forever. Speaking out now is a huge first step, many don't ever speak of this kind of experience and can then become cranky old people who never let love shine your way. Blast away with your thoughts and concerns, we will be here to listen

I let a Corporate Psychopath knock me off my life path for years and robbed me of some of the best years of my life, but I refuse to let things just fall to the road side. What I have learned is to also stand out of the way and let things happen. Youth is on your side, and you will find love. I think the best observations after all these years are a couple of simple things people have said.....

-They got busy painting the red flags white in the beginning and didn't listen to their instincts and when their instincts were saying one thing they brushed it aside and continued painting those flags.

-They didn't use proper boundaries (that comes with being busy painting those flags; )

Learn to accept silence and listen to your inner voice. When you go out for a drive, turn off the radio, your phone etc. and just be in silence, you will find the path.

You have made a huge first step by acknowledging things haven't gone so well, but really compared to what? We can't compare to others and each has our own path, but think of how brave and healthy it is to speak about these issues.

Di

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#15673 - 07/19/13 09:30 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
trudy Offline
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Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 24
Hi Di,
You are correct about the much higher number and the statistics being derived from older studies based on prison populations. I know of four psychopaths all highly socialized. (dangerous and destructive) I was in a relationship with a corporate Psychopath. Ironically it was this relationship that led me on the road to "eyes wide open" and the ability to recognize the other psychopaths in my life. (mother, cousin, ex sister in law.)I think of the experience as a sort of rosetta stone that I can use for the rest of my life. It came at a terrible price but I see how it can be a gift in moving forward to happier, meaningful, living.

The ex Psychopath publicly gives away tons of money as a way of maintaining his reputation. He must be Mr. Wonderful, right, all that philanthropy? It throws people off the scent. They hide in plain sight and because most people have no practical understanding of "WHAT" they are their misdeeds get reasoned away. It seems that society has been trained to tolerate or normalize the terrible behavior of corporate and political psychopaths. When I have mentioned psychopathy and NPD in conversations with people they look at me as if I am a crazy conspiracy theorist. I really don't even bother any more.

After really combing through my own personal rubble I realized that a strong self esteem coupled with clear boundaries are a person's best defense against being victimized in a relationship. (whether or not one is with a Psychopath.)I bought a great book on the subject and have been helped immensely. I wish I had been aware of this much earlier in my life. Having a Psychopath for a mother really did ensure that I had major boundary deficits. I highly recommend to all that before reentering the relationship arena prepare by looking at information on boundaries.

Best to you and everyone else on the forum

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#15674 - 07/19/13 10:13 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: trudy]
Dianne E. Offline

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Hi Trudy, good to see you and thanks for your comments.

If you even watch TV at least here in the states it is hard to not see shows about Psychopath's. They may not call them Psychopath's but really you can only come away with one conclusion. I have the show American Greed on my DVR, and they model exactly what you are talking about as far as giving away money. I noticed that they all are ponzi schemes of one sort or another, and they all give away huge amounts of money to be the big shots. It is sad for the charities etc. because now they are doing what they call "clawing back" when they get caught the authorities go after the charities to repay the investors.

Quote:
When I have mentioned psychopathy and NPD in conversations with people they look at me as if I am a crazy conspiracy theorist. I really don't even bother any more.


So true, I don't recommend to any victim here to even bring up the word Psychopath. It is sad because we have what I call the Ted Bundy effect, people only think of some raging killer. I have had this forum for so many years, and I don't even tell people I meet socially about it. I tried and learned quickly I got the strangest looks like I was some lunatic.

When I had my encounter with a female corporate Psychopath and lost everything I got blamed by people I had known for years. It was a clear fact in their minds that I must have done something wrong and when I brought up my thoughts that she was a Psychopath they really distrusted me of all people. I can still remember the day she gave me that first look of evil, really frosted me to the ground.

I never imagined this forum would be clicking along after all these years and frankly don't see any end in site.

I am glad we are on the subject of female Psychopath's because that was my first deadly encounter and I really believe there are as many women as men, but they just don't get the talking space.

My mother was also in the Personality Disorder group, she was a Borderline so life was full of chaos and mixed messages. Clearly not to the extreme of having a mother who was a Psychopath but chock full of issues.

I believe sincerely also that boundaries are the biggest issues that people who fall prey to Psychopath's have to address. Also,people who fall prey tend to be the nicest most caring people on earth. It is important to not give up on being nice and caring but have the boundaries to go with it.

Thanks again, Trudy, glad to see you are doing well and flourishing. I think life can knock us down, but the true test is our ability to dust ourselves off with some good talking about things and put our feet back on the ground.

Di

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#15675 - 07/20/13 06:13 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Posts: 30
Thanks for the advice, Di. Those are wise words and I will try to implement them. As for female psychopaths and not being violent, some don't have to be. All they've got to do is blow a couple of thugs, or a desperately lonely man not used to that kind of attention, ask for a favor, and then sit back and watch the show while a man handles the violence for them. How often does that happen and the woman behind it is never charged or even accused? If they can get a man to kill, they can get him to protect her and take the fall. That's another thing I bet happens all the time. Saw a video on msn a couple of weeks ago where a woman was calmly ordering her husband's death with a police officer posing as a hit man, because it would be "easier than getting a divorce." She gave the guy her husband's schedule, a map of the house, handed over her husband's savings (she'd drained his account) and promised to pay the rest of the hit man's fee once she got her hands on his lovely life insurance money.

It's pretty twisted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix-hNxr9yp4

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#15676 - 07/20/13 07:25 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
xela007 Offline
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Registered: 06/13/13
Posts: 116
I wouldn't exactly say about anyone, that he or she is a psychopath unless they have a clear cut diagnoses (OR) if they do meet the entire criteria as listed in DSM-IV/DSM V.

The percentage 3% is a bit too high, I don't agree with it. (I certainly believe it's not a correct study, since they counting the heads from prisons, but I dont believe that 3% of the world's population is psychopathic.

If 2% are schizophrenics, 3% psychopathic, 1% is bipolar, 1% borderline, 7-8% suffer from anxiety disorder, and 10 - 15% of the population is depressed then we're looking at 30 - 40% of the population is mentally ill?

This is why a proper diagnoses is important, without it, it never happened.

Xe


Edited by xela007 (07/20/13 07:26 AM)
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#15678 - 07/20/13 08:16 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: xela007]
Dianne E. Offline

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Xe, you keep referring to the need for a proper diagnosis. In a perfect world that would be great and I am glad that you have that luxury.

Lets agree to disagree on this issue, and the majority of people here will never have that option. Just won't happen, in order for a Psychopath to end up in the chair of a shrink it is many times court ordered and even then it would rely on the evaluator to be many steps ahead of them to even reach a diagnosis. Many times members have had a therapist of their own point out that they were dealing with a Psychopath. Anyways this conversation is making me tired, please lets just let it go. I think we all understand that we don't just randomly label people.

If you want to continue this conversation I would suggest a different area than specific threads that are about another topic.

Di

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#15729 - 07/20/13 11:55 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
Dianne E. Offline

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Hi Darth, here is an old thread about a member who married a Female Psychopath. My Lovely Wife - Psychopath

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#15733 - 07/20/13 08:12 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
Dianne E. Offline

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Hi Darth, excellent points and thanks for sharing that video. Yes, it does become more complex when you point out these issues. I think that would really impact how Female Psychopath's would fly under the radar.

I think this point also goes to the way women are raised vs. men, we are raised to play nice and not hit etc, while boys are raised for more direct contact. This gives us a lot to think about to ponder about females vs. males.

Di

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#15735 - 07/21/13 12:27 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 30
Xe

I think it's tough to get a diagnosis for some. They won't see a therapist because they don't think they have a problem, or they will mislead the therapist to get the diagnosis they want to get the drugs they want (mine did that.). I was lucky to have a therapist who became a therapist because he had one. So, when he saw my ex, he was experienced with psychopathic females. I just thought she was a big liar with some other issue but his diagnosis really explained everything and has continued explaining what she has done and continues to do. I don't know why she wanted to "keep" me. She was never cruel to me to my face. She constantly would ask if the marriage was okay and if it wasn't she would revert to love bombing and drop her affairs to focus on me. I think - and this is pure speculation of course - that some of them do this because they find a person who is their "perfect drug." That is, the emotional feed is satisfying to the point they don't want to let it go. They want to keep getting that supply from person x because it is probably the closest to "love" as we Empaths (that's what they call normal people) understand it as they get. My ex actually shared a lot of how she perceived the world to me while we were drinking one night. It was an interesting discussion I will share later. Tons of red flags but I didn't know that at the time. I will share soon because I think that was one of the few times she was honest about what she is. It disturbed me but I thought I could help her.

My mistake.


Edited by DarthNollidge (07/21/13 12:29 AM)

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#15736 - 07/21/13 01:12 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
xela007 Offline
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Registered: 06/13/13
Posts: 116
Originally Posted By: DarthNollidge
Xe

I think it's tough to get a diagnosis for some. They won't see a therapist because they don't think they have a problem, or they will mislead the therapist to get the diagnosis they want to get the drugs they want (mine did that.). I was lucky to have a therapist who became a therapist because he had one. So, when he saw my ex, he was experienced with psychopathic females. I just thought she was a big liar with some other issue but his diagnosis really explained everything and has continued explaining what she has done and continues to do. I don't know why she wanted to "keep" me. She was never cruel to me to my face. She constantly would ask if the marriage was okay and if it wasn't she would revert to love bombing and drop her affairs to focus on me. I think - and this is pure speculation of course - that some of them do this because they find a person who is their "perfect drug." That is, the emotional feed is satisfying to the point they don't want to let it go. They want to keep getting that supply from person x because it is probably the closest to "love" as we Empaths (that's what they call normal people) understand it as they get. My ex actually shared a lot of how she perceived the world to me while we were drinking one night. It was an interesting discussion I will share later. Tons of red flags but I didn't know that at the time. I will share soon because I think that was one of the few times she was honest about what she is. It disturbed me but I thought I could help her.

My mistake.


It's tough, I completely agree with this and with what Di said, probably in most cases it's ordered by the court to have the possible psychopath diagnosed. The thing is that, in many cases the same symptoms as in Psychopathy may occur in a Narcissist and most of the symptoms in these two disorders overlap. Then you can easily say about a narcissist that he is a psychopath. People that do not have much to education regarding psychiatry can make this mistake - (Narcissist have conscience and they can learn from their mistakes, and a few other positive symptoms, too many to list here).

Anyway, back on topic, our psychopath did the same thing, just lied to the psychiatrists, usually was prescribed the drug of choice until things have escalated, and now he is dealing with other mental disorders too, not sure what they are, but he's on anti-psychotic medication. Still behaves psychopathic .. the drugs do nothing, except make them more calm, and seemingly is less manipulative and demanding but on the other side the impulsiveness has escalated. Alcohol became a huge habit, conning and lying are constant day-to-day "operations".

Still living under the same roof, he does nothing, doesn't even wash his dishes, doesn't contribute to the house chores, always ask where his things are when he is a complete mess. I am stuck, being a family member we can't do much about this situation. You can't go kick him out, unless he does something serious to harm us. The psychological abuse was hard enough to bare along the years, I am going through trauma right now, I honestly admit I am scarred of him, even watching him closely sometimes. The look on the face, just doesn't look right then you're all nervous thinking of what he's about to do next. I know some people might think we're worrying too much, but we're not, just live with a psychopath for 20 - 30 years and you'd feel the same. You feel pity, you feel disgust, you feel scarred, you feel numb, you become ignorant, then in the end you do have to become ignorant with the psychopath there is no other way.

Xe


Edited by xela007 (07/21/13 01:20 AM)
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#15737 - 07/21/13 09:42 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
daddysproblem Offline
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Di,

Females have less opportunities in general. Less power, less influence.

So, the female Psychopath would fall under the radar.

All Psychopath's have to work with what they were born into. And the other genetic variables that they were born with.

That's why I put little signifigance on the behaviors. They are as unique as the circumstances and genetics of the psychopath.

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#15738 - 07/21/13 09:53 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
daddysproblem Offline
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Regarding the pedophile teachers. The females appear to get more press. The males are a dime a dozen - nothing new here. And - they do go to jail. I have no idea what the stats are but I would guess the reason there are fewer is because predatory traits in females is frowned on in society, in men they are revered. Also, typically women have sex for different reasons then men.

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#15740 - 07/21/13 11:10 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
crocodile Offline
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Well, the society is collapsing but there's many more people suffering from it than the people responsible. I'd really say "we're the 99%. I've known a lot of people in my life and only a few of them could be Psychopaths and even out of these few probably not everyone was really like that. There may be places where there is more of them and there may be people who tend to jump into them too often. But I think 1-2% is max unless I'm really lucky or blind;).

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#15741 - 07/21/13 11:15 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
crocodile Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dianne E.
Darth I know you and I suspect Croc are quite young, too young to think that love will never come your way. Learn to set boundaries now and dream and it will come your way when the time is right. I don't want to say lucky but if you think about it this has been a very sharp curve in the ballpark of life, if you learn from this experience things can be great for you in the future.

Thanks Di but I'm not that young anymore and I've never had a real relationship that would last more than a month. Mostly because I almost never fall in love and when I do it's not the right person and they don't love me back. The Psychopath was the first time that it seemed to work both ways but it was an illusion. I sometimes think there is something wrong with me but I wouldn't know what.
Originally Posted By: Dianne E.

So true, I don't recommend to any victim here to even bring up the word Psychopath. It is sad because we have what I call the Ted Bundy effect, people only think of some raging killer. I have had this forum for so many years, and I don't even tell people I meet socially about it. I tried and learned quickly I got the strangest looks like I was some lunatic.
Di

I don't think so much anymore. You see people being more and more aware - especially about the corporate Psychopaths. Of course I'm talking about the people who are in general taking their time to really learn about the world around them which sadly is never the majority of the population. But I've had the Psychopath mentioned in the context of my Psychopath from other people and I also know they are able to recognise Psychopaths in the institution they work with all the signs (like being nice and charming when they want something for you but in the same time one knows how they treat people working below them). Of course it's different from the first hand experience but I think a lot of people still get the message.
Originally Posted By: xela007
I wouldn't exactly say about anyone, that he or she is a psychopath unless they have a clear cut diagnoses (OR) if they do meet the entire criteria as listed in DSM-IV/DSM V.
The percentage 3% is a bit too high, I don't agree with it. (I certainly believe it's not a correct study, since they counting the heads from prisons, but I dont believe that 3% of the world's population is psychopathic.
If 2% are schizophrenics, 3% psychopathic, 1% is bipolar, 1% borderline, 7-8% suffer from anxiety disorder, and 10 - 15% of the population is depressed then we're looking at 30 - 40% of the population is mentally ill?
This is why a proper diagnoses is important, without it, it never happened.
Xe

I don't think it's the population, I think it's the DSM, and not 40-50% but I guess 80-90%. This handbook has been receiving a lot of criticism and it's growing. Sure, a diagnosis helps but it can be wrong in either direction, it's just to subjective these days. I'd wait for the brain scans to get better researched...
But I agree with the estimate being too high rather than too low, prison population is likely to have more rather than fewer Psychopaths.
Originally Posted By: DarthNollidge
That is, the emotional feed is satisfying to the point they don't want to let it go. They want to keep getting that supply from person x because it is probably the closest to "love" as we Empaths (that's what they call normal people) understand it as they get.

Mine also told me things like: "you feel too much, I don't feel enough". He was on one hand trying to "fix me" but on the other I had a feeling he was getting "energy" from me, somehow as if the strength of my emotions was giving something for him. I have no idea if that's true or it's just my perception of it but it felt so. This guy was purposefully seeking out "girls with problems" in order to push them over the edge and get the strong response. But he was just moving from one person to another, probably because he was getting bored and the girls were getting "used up" - there is only so much one can take emotionally.

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#15742 - 07/21/13 10:28 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
daddysproblem Offline
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I can never know for certain how many Psychopath's are in or have been in my life. I am confident that i'm like buffy the Psychopath slayer. once you are raised by one and know them intimately you understand them on a very very deep level. So all the speculation and the conclusions and view of people that are not the offspring are limited in my opinion. parents are the 2 people that love you unconditionally. that IS being human. romantic partners, friends, can have many ulterior motives but parents don't. that's human nature. so when a human, as myself, are forced to SEE that their parent does not love them, does not care, has no empathy, it's very hard to not have that impact their world view. I have an acute awareness when i am finally faced with someone without empathy/compassion.

so, my neighbor, i believe is a Psychopath. she is MY female Psychopath.

i'm on to her but know one else is. and it's doubtful anyone else would be either - unless of course they have my particular talent. you see, she is also incredibly skilled. i think most people think she's quirky, lonely, well meaning, awkward.. kind. but i see that everything she does is to gain positive feedback from people. she'll clean your driveway, take care of your garbage. she'll chat it up - ask how you are.

so, she's not a criminal, in fact, she's a therapist (top 10 Psychopath professions).

but because i caught on to her, she knows, that i know. and she messes with me.

so, the question, female psychopath? are they different. nah.. only different in that female lawyers or female doctors or female teachers are different. the get born with a brain that doesn't work right and the rest is up to circumstance.

one thing i know for sure is she is scary. i now stay clear of her. except when i don't. my main problem is she has dogs and one is aggressive. of course it feels her cues and it's attacked my dog and has chased after me. all the while she just looks on. she takes them on walks.. but the leash, is 20 feet. so they have quite a range for me to worry about. when i was caught off guard the other day and she wa on her doorstep, and they were almost right next to me, because the damn leash was 20 feet, i freaked out. i was also feeling a little more powerful due to a little wine consumption. i proceeded to follow her, on my bike (yes, funny ha ha ) but when i called her a Psychopath.. she went back home. that seemed to stop her in her tracks. interesting.

yes, anyone reading this.. yes, i need to stay away.. i usually do, but as i said.. circumstances.. clashed.

my 2 cents ( since it seems to be on this thread too ) is that it's definitely greater then 1-2%. i just think alot of them have never been really pushed to their limits and are socialized. you make friends with them, or start a romantic relationship, or a work relationship, and they show their Psychopath-side.. and you stay away, or modify contact. especially if it's a friend or romantic partner. they don't go out of their way - they don't become obviously Psychopath. they're really like anyone else.

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#15743 - 07/22/13 12:21 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: daddysproblem]
Dianne E. Offline

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Hi daddysproblem, I totally agree I think with age and exposure our eyes are more open and our minds accept that they are everywhere. It is hard to watch a TV show here without a story about one, the only difference is they don't say they are a Psychopath but clearly they have to be. I see at least a couple of shows a week that show up on my DVR by national TV shows that feature both male and female Psychopath's.

Back to women here are some interesting information, keep in mind that studies about women are just getting noticed so these are the opinions of these authors. I don't agree that there are so many fewer than men, but that is just my opinion. I think women in general can be sneaky (lol, so much for a technical description) but I hope you know what I mean.


Female Psychopaths
Are there more than we think?

Published on May 2, 2012 by Joni E. Johnston, Psy.D. in The Human Equation

Callous. Unemotional. Lacking empathy. Aggressive. Impulsive. Acting without any regard for the welfare of others. These descriptions have consistently been used to describe psychopathy, a rather grim personality constellation that is over-represented in prison inmates (although the majority of inmates are not psychopaths and most psychopaths are not in prison). This personality make-up is also consistently documented more often in men versus women; in fact, the ratio has been as high as 20:1.

However, new research suggests that some of the difference between men and women may not be in the existence of deceitful, manipulative, and exploitive personality traits but in the expression of them. Specifically, these researchers found that women may be more likely to express these personality deficits through behaviors that are typically associated with, and diagnosed as, other mental illnesses.

For example, these researchers found overlap between some of the symptoms such as histrionic personality disorder or borderline personality disorder. A woman whose extreme fear of abandonment leads her to periodic outbursts of rage over real or imagined transgressions, flips between seeing her significant other as either completely perfect or totally evil, or who has to constantly be the center of attention certainly isn't who we think of when we think of the classic psychopath. But she may be just as incapable of true empathy, and just as manipulative and deceitful, as the callous, unemotional male.

Source...... Psychology Today Female Psychopaths


Male vs. Female Psychopathy


Throughout time there have been many controversies on what factors create a psychopath. While some have argued that biological, social, familial, and environmental aspects make a psychopath who they are, there is more to it than meets the eye. These factors do not explain the tremendous difference between male and female offenders. While sex differences in psychopaths may be looked over, they are some of the most evident differences in criminal activity. These sex differences range from the number of individuals classified as psychopaths, types of crimes, depth of depravity, and even the victims of these individuals.

More often than not, the public sees stories of male psychopaths on the news. Females however, are seen only once in a blue moon. The sole reason behind this is that there is a greater number of males classified as psychopaths than females. This difference in conduct begins to appear in adolescents as well as young children. While the sociocultural theory focuses on different peer and adult interactions with children at a young age, there are many biological factors that affect this as well (Raine, Narr, Toga, & Yang, 2011). One study shows that “…more boys than girls had conduct disorders, despite marked differences between studies in the age range of children studied, nationality, reporting sources, and procedures followed to convert the symptoms into diagnostic categories” (Class Reading).

While this sex difference is variable around the globe, the general trend is seen cross culturally. In one study, researchers found that in Great Britain, for every girl with conduct disorder, there were two boys with the disorder. Similarly, in the southeastern United States, there was a reported ratio of four boys per girl with conduct disorder (Class Reading). Conduct disorders however, are not the only reason there are more male than female psychopaths. Many criminals and psychopaths suffer from what is known as antisocial personality disorder. One study on APD states, “Reduced orbitofrontal volumes have been reported in males when compared with women have been reported. Furthermore, patients who have suffered demonstrable damage to the ventral, orbitofrontal regions of the prefrontal cortex proceed to acquire an antisocial, psychopath-like personality, whereas volume reductions in prefrontal gray matter have been reported in several antisocial population” (Raine, et al.). If this study holds true, there is evidence that because more males than females have reduced orbitofrontal volumes, there is likely to be more male psychopaths than females.

In addition to the number of individuals classified as psychopaths, the types of crimes and depth of depravity differ greatly between male and female psychopaths. Females have always been thought to be more nurturing and therefore less violent when it comes to aggression and crime. This often times is the reason that researchers feel that women lack the underlying motives for violence (Class Readings). Research has shown that males account for more of every type of offence at every age. This study also shows that the largest sex difference is apparent in violent crimes whereas the difference is very small in drug or alcohol related offences (Class Readings). In general females commit more petty crimes, but that does not mean that females do not carry out acts of violence. Females tend to commit acts of violence, or murder, but they do them in a more discrete way. While males are more prone to shooting, strangling, and stabbing, females are more prone to poison, or suffocate their victim which reduces their depth of depravity (Class Video).

Furthermore, the most substantial sex difference in psychopaths is the difference in victims of the psychopaths. While studies have shown that males are more likely to engage in violence of all kinds, the one and only exception found is with family violence (Class Readings). This trend however is not only limited to the United States and is seen cross culturally. In one study done at a hospital for the mentally disordered in Zimbabwe, researchers found that, “The majority of victims were female and related to the patient. There were no record sexual offences by females” (Menezes, Oyebode, & Haque, 2008). This shows that females are likely to carry out their acts of violence on someone they know and are close to. In many cases of female killers, victims include, but are not limited to, children, dependents, and patients (Class Video). Also, as seen through the study, female psychopaths are not likely to commit sexual offences. Male psychopaths however usually victimize sexual partners, prostitutes, or even young boys and girls. Many times, as in the case of Ted Bundy, men will target females with long hair, and who are attractive for sex, and then end up murdering them. In general it simply seems that males victimize strangers and females victimize people they know.

In the end, sex differences in psychopaths include the number of individuals classified as psychopaths, types of crimes, depth of depravity, and even the victims of these individuals. While there are many factors to take into consideration when it comes to psychopaths, sex differences are some of the most important. Males and females have always been held to different standards, and psychopathy is no exception. Sex differences in behavior will always exists, even in the worst of society.

Source.......Male Vs. Female Psychopaths

My comments, this is based on early diagnosis of conduct disorder which is usually a code word used for children because of issues about labeling them a Psychopath. Every country has a different age when they can be tested for Psychopathy. So if your kid is acting out, killing the family pet, being the neighborhood bully or any other type of behaviors they get the label of conduct disorder. A friendly way of saying your kid is a budding Psychopath. However, that said, many kids like adults never end up being taken to a shrink, the more socialized ones will have parents that will protect them.

Here again, I would argue that the reason boys are labeled with conduct disorder more than the girls is because the girls are more clever in how they exhibit Psychopathic tendencies. They wouldn't be doing overt things like a boy would do but have a different kind of acting out. I also would bet that more men end up in prison than women of the non socialized ones. The scary equation is the ones who are so clever and evil they go through their life and the number of people they impact is so high it would be hard to put a number on it. Imagine a Psychopath in a high position, Jeez the numbers could be staggering.

Di

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#15745 - 07/22/13 12:57 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 30
"Girl world," as presented by Mean Girls, Girl Code, any number of reality shows, makes the girl world as described to me (admittedly, a male who doesn't understand girl world all that much) a great place for a female psychopath to do her thing. People just call them a queen bee or a [censored] and if they're a big enough jerk (or come from a rich enough family) some of them even get their own reality TV shows.

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#15747 - 07/22/13 05:52 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: daddysproblem]
xela007 Offline
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Registered: 06/13/13
Posts: 116
Originally Posted By: daddysproblem
I can never know for certain how many Psychopath's are in or have been in my life. I am confident that i'm like buffy the Psychopath slayer. once you are raised by one and know them intimately you understand them on a very very deep level. So all the speculation and the conclusions and view of people that are not the offspring are limited in my opinion. parents are the 2 people that love you unconditionally. that IS being human. romantic partners, friends, can have many ulterior motives but parents don't. that's human nature. so when a human, as myself, are forced to SEE that their parent does not love them, does not care, has no empathy, it's very hard to not have that impact their world view. I have an acute awareness when i am finally faced with someone without empathy/compassion.

so, my neighbor, i believe is a Psychopath. she is MY female Psychopath.

i'm on to her but know one else is. and it's doubtful anyone else would be either - unless of course they have my particular talent. you see, she is also incredibly skilled. i think most people think she's quirky, lonely, well meaning, awkward.. kind. but i see that everything she does is to gain positive feedback from people. she'll clean your driveway, take care of your garbage. she'll chat it up - ask how you are.

so, she's not a criminal, in fact, she's a therapist (top 10 Psychopath professions).

but because i caught on to her, she knows, that i know. and she messes with me.

so, the question, female psychopath? are they different. nah.. only different in that female lawyers or female doctors or female teachers are different. the get born with a brain that doesn't work right and the rest is up to circumstance.

one thing i know for sure is she is scary. i now stay clear of her. except when i don't. my main problem is she has dogs and one is aggressive. of course it feels her cues and it's attacked my dog and has chased after me. all the while she just looks on. she takes them on walks.. but the leash, is 20 feet. so they have quite a range for me to worry about. when i was caught off guard the other day and she wa on her doorstep, and they were almost right next to me, because the damn leash was 20 feet, i freaked out. i was also feeling a little more powerful due to a little wine consumption. i proceeded to follow her, on my bike (yes, funny ha ha ) but when i called her a Psychopath.. she went back home. that seemed to stop her in her tracks. interesting.

yes, anyone reading this.. yes, i need to stay away.. i usually do, but as i said.. circumstances.. clashed.

my 2 cents ( since it seems to be on this thread too ) is that it's definitely greater then 1-2%. i just think alot of them have never been really pushed to their limits and are socialized. you make friends with them, or start a romantic relationship, or a work relationship, and they show their Psychopath-side.. and you stay away, or modify contact. especially if it's a friend or romantic partner. they don't go out of their way - they don't become obviously Psychopath. they're really like anyone else.


Now that was funny :))

I wouldn't exactly annoy the psychopath though. They are up for revenge, hope you're staying safe, I mean do not annoy the psychopath, she's up for the most evil of things (not necessarily complete them) but what runs through their mind can be put into action. Watch Green River Killer, Ted Bundy, Charles Mason - all psychopaths and serial killers - the fact that not all of them are killers in society, doesn't mean they're not enjoying the idea, they do I bet - or at least revenge somehow.

My ex girlfriend, I believe she's a psychopath by nature, her dad is one anyway and she possibly inherrited it. Her dad abuse her, her sister and her mom for decades, has shown all signs of grandiosity and request/demands admiration (typical psychopath) not to mention the manipulation, cheating and lying. She is very close to her dad's behavior (which I did not understand for almost 8 years). She took revenge, had me in court, had taken my son away from me, has even gave birth to my son without coming up with an agreement if we should have a child or not. I took it. I forgive but I don't forget. She basically fell pregnant, knew it, and ran away, she only called me when nothing could be done about the pregnancy any longer. I forgave her, I still loved her, I still continued the relationship, then she made the fatal mistake to show her real face back in 2009, a parasite, staying all day doing nothing, sucking on my own money and faking to get a job, tried to commit suicide swallowing pills with alcohol and took off to her mom's home the following days without saying anything.

Then the revenge began.

Didn't want to make this too long, but thanks for reading. Psychopath are going to revenge if you annoy them enough. Let me tell you one thing, ignorance is your best tool, if she does get in your way with something, have her understand the issue - or ask the law to take care of her. (if it's that serious).

Psychopath's love good and negative attention so don't give the [censored] any. Ignore her. Leave her in the dust, it's for the better, I know I could have saved years and years if I would have known to ditch my ex right from the start (for her immoral behavior). The other Psychopaths in my life, I couldn't do anything about it, they were/are my primary family members, father and brother.


XeXe


Edited by xela007 (07/22/13 05:57 AM)
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#15749 - 07/22/13 06:44 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: xela007]
Dianne E. Offline

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Registered: 11/15/02
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Hi Darth, just saw on the news an update about what looks like a Female Psychopath might just walk and also get the 2 million in insurance money. Her lover and her boss was convicted but convinced them he was insane and won't testify against her, probably still under her spell.

If you are interested there is plenty of info about the case online by doing a search for Andrea Sniderman. Have followed it for awhile, she took the stand and was pretty interesting to watch, pretty good actress.

Di

Oh btw, she hindered the investigation by about 6 weeks by not saying anything about her boss/lover. Then the topper is 2 days after she had the cash in her hands (it is now frozen) she told the cops they should check him out.

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#15751 - 07/23/13 04:08 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
xela007 Offline
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Registered: 06/13/13
Posts: 116
Originally Posted By: Dianne E.
Hi Darth, just saw on the news an update about what looks like a Female Psychopath might just walk and also get the 2 million in insurance money. Her lover and her boss was convicted but convinced them he was insane and won't testify against her, probably still under her spell.

If you are interested there is plenty of info about the case online by doing a search for Andrea Sniderman. Have followed it for awhile, she took the stand and was pretty interesting to watch, pretty good actress.

Di

Oh btw, she hindered the investigation by about 6 weeks by not saying anything about her boss/lover. Then the topper is 2 days after she had the cash in her hands (it is now frozen) she told the cops they should check him out.


oh man, this [censored] does deserve a really good working over, I mean prison and cold showers daily. Arghh sorry I got annoyed with this story. :--)

Xe
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#15752 - 07/23/13 08:31 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: xela007]
Dianne E. Offline

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Agreed Xe, she is pure evil. We are in one sense fortunate with the Internet we can watch these people online, truly disgusting what she did to her kids. When they blow away the spouse it is bad enough when they involve the kids it is a whole other level of evil.

Di

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#15835 - 07/30/13 02:50 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 30
Hey, all, I will look into Sniderman. I just spent a nice week on vacation in the tropics. The kind of thing I could never do with the psychopath on board.

But she was a busy girl while I was away. It's really like watching someone use a Psychopath handbook. I am glad it isn't happening to me but my buddy, whom she is currently going, well, psycho on, had some some trouble. She has apparently learned it is best to set up her target and not to assume nice = pushover like she did with me. She admittedly blind-sided and burned him by going on the offensive before he even knew he was in trouble (She ran into a wall of defense that I'd quietly set up in advance when she tried to burn me last spring.) I have not taken part I am just trying to help him get her out of his life. She is no more intelligent or charming but seems to have developed reluctant "followers" over the last year or so. I don't know how to help him out. I am trying to stay off her radar. I hate to admit that hearing she has been even worse to the those who came after me makes me feel better, but it does show her true nature very well and released me of any doubts that it could've worked "if only I'd". For the first time I feel emotionally free and it feels good to help someone else get through the experience, especially when it's the same one. Not going to pretend the vacation didn't help me either. I feel so refreshed and back to being myself. I know for sure it wasn't me, it's her, and she is an anomaly, not normal.

There is the matter of love bombing though. Just have to get used to a normal woman's idea of showing interest, as opposed to the aggressive and obvious pursuit a female psychopath uses. I'd love to have a woman's perspective on the difference as I focus on the future and getting back out there to give love another chance. :-)


Edited by DarthNollidge (07/30/13 02:56 PM)

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#15836 - 07/30/13 03:52 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
Dianne E. Offline

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Hi Darth, great to hear you had such a wonderful time, good for you.

What is going on with your friend who she is involved with? Is he looking to you for support? This can be an icy road because she has probably set him up with all the things about you. Keep in mind that as long as he is with her Psychopath's have a very tricky way of getting information about you and could drag you back into the loop. Unfortunately,friend or not there will come a time that unless asked sincerely you can't protect others from her unless they want help. If he is looking for support that is great, however he better be very careful she doesn't get pregnant, could be his worst nightmare come true. Even if he sort of wants help I would pound that message into his head and even if she says she is taking precaution she might just be lying.

Quote:
I hate to admit that hearing she has been even worse to the those who came after me makes me feel better


I think that is pretty normal, imo, I know when I found out there were other victims for a few seconds I felt glad but then I returned to myself and found myself not doing a cheer, but getting back to the present moment. The only thing between having my head spin off through life is getting back to the present moment. Sometimes I go through what I call my re litigating phases when I go through the past like a detective analysing every detail and then catch myself and snap back. I tell myself I am fortunate the past is just that, the past. Sounds simple but it is life's work.

Quote:
I'd love to have a woman's perspective on the difference as I focus on the future and getting back out there to give love another chance.


How about if you give us a list or some idea of what kind of things you used to have happen with her, for example, you might ask us: is it normal for a woman to text you every 20 seconds, lol, I am sure you get the idea.

Di

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#15840 - 07/30/13 08:59 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 30
Originally Posted By: Dianne E.
Hi Darth, great to hear you had such a wonderful time, good for you.


Thanks. I posted a couple of times my first night there then didn't think about psychopaths until my return, other than to watch out for them in the streets of Honolulu. But I do that here.

Quote:
What is going on with your friend who she is involved with?
Was involved with. He came to me after she inexplicably turned on him and vacated the premises. We were cool back in high school. I left my junior year when my dad got transferred. It is a uniquely named place and as soon as she saw it she knew we'd known each other. Once he realized who she'd been married to he began questioning her crazy stories about me, because it didn't match what he and others remembered about me (that I was a nice person who went out of my way to be friendly and considerate to others.) He was very confused about what had just happened to him. I was aware they were dating but no contact is no contact, and I was wary of a trick until we talked on the phone. Then I found out and started helping him put everything together. Then I began helping him defend himself since I am familiar with her tactics. She has grown much bolder than she was with me but he said just today it's been very helpful for him as well, talking with me, and he's got things back on track. Just...she's still playing games with him. He is trying to bore her into going away by not responding emotionally, only with facts and short statements. He is actually the one who led me to this forum after I recommended lovefraud to him. We've been comparing notes, even as to how we screwed up and fooled ourselves along the way.

Quote:
How about if you give us a list or some idea of what kind of things you used to have happen with her, for example, you might ask us: is it normal for a woman to text you every 20 seconds, lol, I am sure you get the idea.



Just the amount of attention. She didn't text that much but she did pay a lot of attention. I guess I'll have to determine how much is too much but a lot of the women I am friends with now say things that baffle me, like, "I walked by and looked at him and then sat there, totally available for him to come talk and he didn't." And I'm like, "Well, did you smile or anything? Say hi?" And they look appalled and say something like, "No, you guys are supposed to chase us. We can't go around being that obvious or doing something crazy, like making a move." To which I always wonder, why not? Asking out a woman you like is actually really hard when you have feelings. She can crush your hopes and dreams with one word and sometimes you just don't feel like getting rejected that day and pass on the opportunity. To a woman, as I'm interpreting it, me not coming over is a "rejection" even though by my standards she hasn't put herself out there so I wouldn't see it as one. Something like that. :-)

Anyways, thanks Di


Edited by DarthNollidge (07/30/13 09:00 PM)

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#15843 - 07/31/13 05:01 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
heartbroken Offline
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Registered: 07/24/13
Posts: 38
Diane this is soooo true.
Quote:
"My comments, this is based on early diagnosis of conduct disorder which is usually a code word used for children because of issues about labeling them a Psychopath. Every country has a different age when they can be tested for Psychopathy. So if your kid is acting out, killing the family pet, being the neighborhood bully or any other type of behaviors they get the label of conduct disorder. A friendly way of saying your kid is a budding Psychopath. However, that said, many kids like adults never end up being taken to a shrink, the more socialized ones will have parents that will protect them.

Here again, I would argue that the reason boys are labeled with conduct disorder more than the girls is because the girls are more clever in how they exhibit Psychopathic tendencies. They wouldn't be doing overt things like a boy would do but have a different kind of acting out. I also would bet that more men end up in prison than women of the non socialized ones. The scary equation is the ones who are so clever and evil they go through their life and the number of people they impact is so high it would be hard to put a number on it. Imagine a Psychopath in a high position, Jeez the numbers could be staggering."


The neighbor boy behind us was knocked unconscience by the other neighbor kids. He was hit on top of the head with a skateboard, left unconscience in the driveway for his mom to find him. When the cops interviewed the kids, as they asked why they did it, they said because they felt like it. These same kids were coming into my backyard to beat up my young ones. Thankfully, the Judo lessons paid off and my kids took them down time and time again. But, that didn't stop them from coming back and trying again. Nothing much is done in our city about this because it is all about politics. They don't want to look bad so the cops do absolutely nothing to keep their crime rates low. But, back to what you said. The girl psychopaths don't do things like that. They are much more clever, not as obvious with the physical.

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#15845 - 07/31/13 11:06 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
Originally Posted By: DarthNollidge
(...)I hate to admit that hearing she has been even worse to the those who came after me makes me feel better, but it does show her true nature very well and released me of any doubts that it could've worked "if only I'd".(...)

There is the matter of love bombing though. Just have to get used to a normal woman's idea of showing interest, as opposed to the aggressive and obvious pursuit a female psychopath uses. I'd love to have a woman's perspective on the difference as I focus on the future and getting back out there to give love another chance. :-)

That's the thing with Psychopaths - they always have to escalate and get worse each time - that's this need for stimulation that can never be satisfied and they always want more and more. I know I've set the bar pretty high for the next girl so I'm super afraid what he's going to do to her but until now it's the honeymoon phase.
I sometimes wonder myself what would be worse: to see him happy and perfectly normal with the next person or to see this other person suffer as I did. I guess I'd actually prefer the first thing, it'd make the whole relationship with him less empty and meaningless if I knew he may not be a real Psychopath. But I doubt that will be the case. I know I'm not the first one and likely not the last.
It's hard for me to tell you what the difference is since I've never seen the female Psychopath in action. Maybe you can describe what exactly she did?

Originally Posted By: DarthNollidge
Just the amount of attention. She didn't text that much but she did pay a lot of attention. I guess I'll have to determine how much is too much but a lot of the women I am friends with now say things that baffle me, like, "I walked by and looked at him and then sat there, totally available for him to come talk and he didn't." And I'm like, "Well, did you smile or anything? Say hi?" And they look appalled and say something like, "No, you guys are supposed to chase us. We can't go around being that obvious or doing something crazy, like making a move." To which I always wonder, why not? Asking out a woman you like is actually really hard when you have feelings. She can crush your hopes and dreams with one word and sometimes you just don't feel like getting rejected that day and pass on the opportunity. To a woman, as I'm interpreting it, me not coming over is a "rejection" even though by my standards she hasn't put herself out there so I wouldn't see it as one. Something like that. :-)

There is no simple rules I guess - some women are more bold, some are shy. I usually am the least attentive to the guy I am interested in, subconsciously, since I am shy. I usually smile and talk to everyone else but the person which is not very helpful. But there are girl who will come up and start a chat if they are interested - that's just different personalities. You can't spot a Psychopath base only on that. But it's always nice when a guy comes up to you and tries to pick you up, even if you're not interested so I guess there is nothing to worry about.

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#15847 - 07/31/13 12:33 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: heartbroken]
Dianne E. Offline

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Exactly hearbroken,

Quote:
The girl psychopaths don't do things like that. They are much more clever, not as obvious with the physical.

That is exactly why I think it is a mistake to think there are so fewer women than men, women abuse in different non physical ways which really can be worse if there is such a scale. I would rather have someone give me a punch, at least I would be able to pinpoint the issue. With women they are not likely to hit but hit in a deadly way all the same.

Di

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#15849 - 07/31/13 12:48 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
I think they abuse physically as well - there is data that most of the domestic abuse of kids is done actually by women. Women just keep it at home when it's easier to sweep under the rug. I'm not sure if there is so much difference in the male vs female Psychopath to begin with, they only learn to adjust to the society's view of the sex roles.

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#15850 - 07/31/13 05:07 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: crocodile]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 30
Originally Posted By: crocodile
I usually am the least attentive to the guy I am interested in, subconsciously, since I am shy. I usually smile and talk to everyone else but the person which is not very helpful. But there are girl who will come up and start a chat if they are interested - that's just different personalities. You can't spot a Psychopath base only on that. But it's always nice when a guy comes up to you and tries to pick you up, even if you're not interested so I guess there is nothing to worry about.


Helpful to know. About men? While, this is how I see things. I would assume that, if you are talking to everyone else in the room and ignoring me, that I have no chance. I always look for smiling, eye contact, some sort of sign that yes, she noticed me at least and might have some interest in chatting. You have to remember, that as a man - and there are even non psychopathic women who do this - if I come on to you and you're of the opinion I've done it too strongly or you just feel like being a jerk you can make a scene and I can end up in jail, thrown out of the place, or beaten up for my trouble. So if you're ignoring me or are non responsive I would quickly leave you alone because I don't want any problems. A psychopath, a narcissist, or a creep might keep pushing but a nice man will not; he will respect your boundaries and react to whatever signs, physical or verbal, that you give him. If you give nothing or ignore him how exactly is he supposed to know you like him? I have heard this before and just do not get it lol. Most men will not walk headlong into a rejection if they think that's what's coming. I mean, who would?

My ex-spath didn't love bomb me to the extreme I have seen others mention. She was really only a little more attentive than other women I'd dated in regards to being friendly and with calls and texts at the beginning. I think that's because she pissed me off the first time we met and I'm pretty sure she watched me interact with my best girl/friend, who also happened to be roommate at the time and the spath was around a lot then, and she could tell I had a thing for the roommate (who was not available), they looked similar, and she took on the roommate's visible personality traits. Which meant being too aggressive was off the table. Well, except sexually, but I was in college. Plenty of not-crazy girls showed about the same amount of restraint there lol.

The ex-spath lovebombs the hell out of people now, though. I saw her do it when we broke up last year and she ran up my phone bill.



Edited by DarthNollidge (07/31/13 05:08 PM)

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#15851 - 07/31/13 05:34 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
Dianne E. Offline

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Registered: 11/15/02
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Quote:
If you give nothing or ignore him how exactly is he supposed to know you like him? I have heard this before and just do not get it lol. Most men will not walk headlong into a rejection if they think that's what's coming. I mean, who would?


I don't agree with the ignoring, I think you are right, some eye contact etc. is important to let the man know it is okay to approach. It is like in the old days if you go to a dance with other singles even if the ugliest guy in the room asks you to dance, you dance because otherwise the nice guys will be watching and see you are someone who rejects others.

Do you have any friends with dogs that you can borrow? I used to have to fight people off, lol when I would sit for coffee with my kids. It makes you much more approachable.

Now how to fend of the Psychopath's. The number one thing that people have all said over the years is they didn't pay attention to the first red flags, just got out those paint brushes and got busy painting them white;)

Like I said before, if we keep our minds in a constant whirl with constant noise, phones, radio or whatever it is much harder to hear that inner voice. That inner voice is what has the ability to keep us safe. If we spend some of our time in silence we can reflect and see if that voice is telling us this person is not right for us or something is off. The real key is to not become so defensive that you are on the alert like an FBI agent.

They say to come up with a short list of things that are unacceptable and don't expand the list and give the person a try if they don't exhibit any of the things on your list.

For example, I am not interested in dating alcoholics/heavy drinkers or drug users. I am also very much not interested in someone who finds humor in belittling others. Also,people who are rude to wait staff or service personnel and have an air of superiority. And the list goes on, try to make a list of around 10 key things

How did your X act when you were out to eat?

I have a question, what were some of the things that she did in the beginning that you brushed aside?

Di

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#15854 - 07/31/13 09:12 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 30
Originally Posted By: Dianne E.
How did your X act when you were out to eat?


She treated wait staff well. She always had a second job as a waitress. She LOVED being a waitress, probably because of all the mini-games she constantly got to play. However, she tended toward being inappropriate otherwise. I always thought it was because she wasn't raised well - her mom is a piece of work and her dad, having sired a family of Psychopaths, stayed away as much as he could. A story for another time - but now I realize it's the personality disorder. It seemed like she never could grasp basic human decency, tact, and good manners. Mouthed off often and when we went out with others often talked way too much too soon about very personal things, like her messed up family, with people I regarded as basically strangers. She did that often; meet someone, and oh, it's my best friend. And she would bff bomb them lol.

Quote:
I have a question, what were some of the things that she did in the beginning that you brushed aside?
Same behavior I mentioned above. She acted similarly around my friends - said and did inappropriate things, her behavior tended to irk them. My first instinct about her was probably the right one; I disliked her. Thought she was an ass. She showed up at a friend's party. I saw her and her buddy get invited earlier that week when we were visiting him at work. The friend didn't come - I found out later they had a big falling out over some guy she stole from the girl. She did not have any friends. A red flag I brushed aside. No childhood friends. No current friends longer than maybe a month at the time. Anyways, she shows up alone and goes and stands in the corner. Feeling bad I went and introduced myself and my crew. I was pretty popular on campus and knew a lot of people, probably one reason she targeted me. Anyhow she acted like a jerk so I wrote her off. Enough of a jerk that I wanted nothing to do with her. One of my buddies thought she was cute and even asked if I'd mind if he hit on her. I told him go ahead. Later, while we were hanging out, she blurted that she knew I totally wanted her and wanted to get in her pants. I didn't even have to say anything, my friends corrected her. I avoided her after that.

But she kept showing up at my house. With me and my two roommates being seniors, we were having people come in to see the house for rent. She actually ended up living in the roommate I mentioned's room. Even had the same bed because my friend bought a new one after college and let her keep that one, which she of course accepted. First time I saw her again she gave me a hug and I just glared at her and went upstairs. She is very good at the pity play and she was attractive when she wanted to be. She played that whole "if only I had a chance" card on me. The red flag here should've been that everyone else around, trying to move in or on their way out, went to the local university. She did not. She had taken one community college class and failed it. She just worked nearby, two jobs as usual. One as a waitress, of course. My mom likes to say she was there for a degree, all right - her M.R.S. degree to get someone to marry her and take her to the city. She didn't have a car, rode a bike everywhere. No one would give her a ride (because no one there liked her. Big surprise.)

Thankfully I made her get herself to the city. Looking back on it she lived in a house of college men who were stoners for two years. Bet she had fun screwing them behind my back.


Edited by DarthNollidge (07/31/13 09:16 PM)
Edit Reason: edits

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#15860 - 08/01/13 03:04 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
Originally Posted By: DarthNollidge
Originally Posted By: crocodile
I usually am the least attentive to the guy I am interested in, subconsciously, since I am shy. I usually smile and talk to everyone else but the person which is not very helpful. But there are girl who will come up and start a chat if they are interested - that's just different personalities. You can't spot a Psychopath base only on that. But it's always nice when a guy comes up to you and tries to pick you up, even if you're not interested so I guess there is nothing to worry about.

Helpful to know. About men? While, this is how I see things. I would assume that, if you are talking to everyone else in the room and ignoring me, that I have no chance. I always look for smiling, eye contact, some sort of sign that yes, she noticed me at least and might have some interest in chatting. You have to remember, that as a man - and there are even non psychopathic women who do this - if I come on to you and you're of the opinion I've done it too strongly or you just feel like being a jerk you can make a scene and I can end up in jail, thrown out of the place, or beaten up for my trouble. So if you're ignoring me or are non responsive I would quickly leave you alone because I don't want any problems. A psychopath, a narcissist, or a creep might keep pushing but a nice man will not; he will respect your boundaries and react to whatever signs, physical or verbal, that you give him. If you give nothing or ignore him how exactly is he supposed to know you like him? I have heard this before and just do not get it lol. Most men will not walk headlong into a rejection if they think that's what's coming. I mean, who would?

Well, I grew out a bit of this, I'm a little more open since I've grown out of my teens but still it's hard for me to talk to someone I'm attracted to and not be super self-aware. But you're spot on with the Psychopaths and narcissists - probably that's how I ended up with this guy, I was totally into him but I knew he had a GF so I didn't do anything and tried to stay away. He figured out I'm in love with him and started his game:/.
Originally Posted By: Dianne E.
[quote] I am also very much not interested in someone who finds humor in belittling others. Also, people who are rude to wait staff or service personnel and have an air of superiority. And the list goes on, try to make a list of around 10 key things

Yeah, my Psychopath had always had a super nasty comment about people, especially overweight or women. He used to call every girl who was even slightly interested in him (or I guess in some instances not at all except in his mind) sluts or whores. It always made me angry since I knew he slept with a lot of women before me and I always told him "you're the biggest slut of them all" but he only brushed it off with a smirk.

Originally Posted By: DarthNollidge
Same behavior I mentioned above. She acted similarly around my friends - said and did inappropriate things, her behavior tended to irk them. My first instinct about her was probably the right one; I disliked her. Thought she was an ass.

Yeah, a big read flag ignored. It was the same in my case - my friends did not have a good opinion about the guy from the get go - a friend told me exactly "this guy is a Psychopath" and I ignored it. I can just beat myself over the head for being so stupid. I knew everything, he even admitted it himself sort of but I was making excuses for him he didn't even bother to invent. It must have been funny for him - no effort.
But my Psychopath was quite liked . Or at least appeared to be - now I've realised that most of the people he hung out with stopped contacting him after a very brief time. Almost all his friendships are in fact casual acquaintances who don't know him well except for two guys - one knows he's full of [censored] but he's also a good guy and is probably making the same excuses I did for the Psychopath and the other I don't know well but they're friends for years so apparently some Psychopaths have real friends.
I remember thinking in the beginning that he was not my sort of a person and if I was not so madly attracted to him I'd probably dislike him a lot.

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#15862 - 08/02/13 06:10 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: crocodile]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 30
Originally Posted By: crocodile
I remember thinking in the beginning that he was not my sort of a person and if I was not so madly attracted to him I'd probably dislike him a lot.


I find this confusing. My ex-spath had to work pretty hard to change my mind about her. I usually dated...well, like, vapid models and stuff. I had a few really pretty girls who weren't like that. But she was probably the least physically attractive woman I'm been involved with. The personality she showed me (being tailor made for me, and all) made me happily look beyond the physical. I had a friend with benefits at the time who was much cuter than the spath and we got along better. We are actually still friends even though we are thousands of miles apart and talk regularly. I wanted to date the FWB, and I told her this, but she liked it with no strings attached and I wanted a girlfriend. A vulnerability the spath played to, and really the key in why I chose the spath over the other woman. This was something the spath held a grudge about. I am beginning to see all her little grudges and "must get evens" that would have been the basis of her games and goal setting. But she convinced me I'd misunderstood our first interaction and on a superficial level people liked her so I eventually bought it. Attractive or not, if I dislike a woman's personality or the way she treats me, or if she is a cheater who clearly pursues other men while in a relationship, I wouldn't give her the time of day no matter how attracted to her I was. I think the dynamic must be different for women. When I initially thought my spath was not my sort of person, I mean, that was it. She was out. I disliked her and made sure she knew it. I cannot be attracted to someone I dislike. Not the first time I've heard a woman say something like what you did, though. "Oh he's such a jerk." Then they swoon and will date the jerk. Knowing he's a jerk. Does not compute lol.


Edited by DarthNollidge (08/02/13 06:13 AM)

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#15868 - 08/02/13 06:23 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
Dianne E. Offline

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Hi Darth, I don't know about in general but specifically to women who date or marry Psychopath's I have heard from members who posted here time and time again how they were with a type that wasn't their usual. Meaning he was quite unattractive in many, many ways. I think with Psychopath's they have some magnetic charm that gets people to overlook their bad looks and bad habits.

It sounds like your x had some very different looks and habits from women you were normally attracted to. I guess the big question is based she seemed to rub people the wrong way and wasn't that attractive, what lured you in? It has to be more than she kept after you as marriage is a huge step. Did she challenge you in anyway to change her?

Di

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#15874 - 08/03/13 03:25 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 30
Pity play - she told me her sob story and I felt sorry for her. The protective side came out, I guess. And I've got a hero complex, wanted to save her. She played that like a harp from Hell. She was cute enough when she put some effort into her appearance. This was something she rarely did but she was doing it then. I relaxed my standards a little because I'd become convinced she was simply raised poorly and was misunderstood. She eagerly and regularly expressed a desire to become more than what she was and wanted me to show her how to get there since her parents were just not with it. Combined with the other girl not wanting to settle down, that is how she got me to commit. She kept that act up for years. Until we got married. I'd seen flashes of the real her but she was always quick to cover them up or make them seem like blips on the radar. Normal. But after nuptials things quickly began to go seriously downhill, mostly because she was rarely around. It was only after we broke up that I was able to make sense of everything by researching and the puzzle pieces began to fit, even little things I'd noticed but ignored from before we got married. All part of her big plan to get me to marry her for whatever reasons she had.

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#15876 - 08/03/13 03:43 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
crocodile Offline
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
That doesn't have to be the case - mine was super attractive to me and 100% my type. It's "only" his personality that would turn me away from him as a person but I ignored it happily because I was so much into him. But I knew that if it was not for me being interested in him in a sexual way we would never be friends and likely bitter enemies since guys like that usually get under my skin and I give them tough time.

Originally Posted By: DarthNollidge
Pity play - she told me her sob story and I felt sorry for her.

Exactly - the most characteristic thing about a Psychopath. If the person whom you barely know tells you his/her sad story full of trauma and shame and makes you believe that you're the only or one of few trusted people who knows about that - it's bs and you should run. There may be some people who are super open about stuff like that but then they will not make you feel special because they tell you that. Later I learned that he told the story to pretty much everyone. I remember being confused why he feels he needs to tell that to me and why am I so special and he didn't really give me an answer that made sense but again - I happily ignored it. He basically told me that on the second real conversation we had together, on the first one he only hinted this and that and made me interested and curious. Well played I must give him that.

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#15913 - 08/14/13 06:10 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: crocodile]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 30
Good article on dating. Even warns about Psychopaths at the end.

http://www.eharmony.com/blog/2013/07/29/...ks#.UgtxP21f-eY

I met either another one or maybe a sex addict on the interwebs last week. Actually met more than one but they're pretty obvious after previous experience. Needless to say I simply become boring and halt the game and they go on to the next one. Thanks to the forums or I might still be falling for those ruses.

:-)

Oh and found another good one:

http://www.eharmony.com/dating-advice/da...ks#.UgtxTG1f-eY


Edited by DarthNollidge (08/14/13 06:22 AM)
Edit Reason: added link

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#15914 - 08/14/13 10:19 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
Dianne E. Offline

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Thanks Darth, great articles. It really boils down to boundaries that is the number one reason really nice people get caught up with the wrong person. We have to accept that we should focus on change for ourselves first and not rescuing others. Don't mean to sound harsh but I am sure you get the jest.

What I found very, very interesting were the negative comments people were making about these articles. I don't know if they are all eharmony clients, but boy they seem to have a hard time seeing that these suggestions make any sense.

Di

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#15916 - 08/15/13 01:30 PM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: Dianne E.]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 30
They're uninitiated, Di. I hope it doesn't happen but they may find out the hard way. Foud another good one on female psychopaths that listed traits I'd forgotten, like how they can play servant and really pour on the "I'm here for you" role.

http://signsofapsychopath.com/female-psychopaths/

I found the two lists very accurate aside of the children and constant togetherness. Mine is not yet thirty but she was very like what the article says. Very good warning signs.

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#16016 - 08/29/13 09:14 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
DarthNollidge Offline
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Registered: 07/17/13
Posts: 30
My ex-psychopath is validating what she is. The woman is raising hell out there; disrupting lives, ruining friendships, marriages, kid to parent relationships, and her victims keep turning to me to make sense of it. I am not sure what to tell them. Her latest target is the woman from an older couple whom she works with. I think she has seduced this lady, whose behavior has turned as bizarre and dishonest as the psychopath. This is who she had spying on me, pretending to be a friend. I am glad I did not wholly trust this person. It is uncanny how someone so unlikable is able to do this and keep getting away with it. It must be control by pity play and/or sex because particularly charming or attractive, she isn't. I am no longer sure how to counsel these people. They are pissed. Hurt. Shocked. But they listen now when I say "I wasn't kidding; she is an actual, bonafide, psychopath. Most of them don't run around killing people. They do what she is doing." Anyone else have a clumsy, kinda stupid one who turns people against them and then have the targets coming to you to find out the "wtf just happened, what is really wrong with them" aspect? I have given links and they marvel at how much she fits the description but outside of that I just listen and try to be supportive.


Edited by DarthNollidge (08/29/13 09:16 AM)

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#16017 - 08/29/13 11:41 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
crocodile Offline
member

Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 329
I did the same - sent links. When people ask specifically I just tell them I have my opinion but they should read and make up their minds themselves - this way you don't come out as crazy paranoid who goes around shouting "Psychopath". I was astounded how disliked my Psychopath actually was. It turns out he's actually pretty rude and nasty to people, I just never saw it because in my presence he behaved differently, not only to me but others. Now I hear people openly complaining about him, how he doesn't even know how to say thank you and how they refuse to do things for him etc. Actually this part makes me really happy since I can see that the healthy mechanisms of society are sometimes still working.
Which is not to say that I also don't have trouble from some people who don't know me personally but only have believed the lies he told about me and never had a chance to experience his character. But I got at least moral satisfaction, that must stand for something;).

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#16019 - 08/30/13 02:29 AM Re: Female Psychopaths [Re: DarthNollidge]
Dianne E. Offline

Administrator
member

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 2578
Loc: United States
Hi Darth, it is never easy breaking free especially if they are in your same social circle and you share contact.

Quote:
It must be control by pity play and/or sex


Bingo that sums it up. They create and lure in victims by portraying themselves as the victim.

I think you are on the right track with the links and listening and being supportive. It can be a slippery path if you get too engaged because who knows if she might then snag them back into her web of evil and have information from you. Can create quite a bad circular deal.

Sometimes people just want to talk and in reality they consider people who don't say much as more supportive, hope I am making that clear. I have a few things that I say to not engage and also not be rude. A Zen teacher gave me this one, I asked her what to say to people who come up to me and start spilling their "stuff" and I wasn't really in a position (or interested...) to discuss it.

One of the phrases I have used for years is: Gee, I am sure if I was in your shoes I would feel exactly like you do. The obvious catch is we can only be in our own shoes, but no one has ever caught on, and they are comforted by it, and I can then exit appropriately.

No one has ever caught on that I am really not saying much. Clearly I am not in their shoes, it is impossible, I have my own shoes. You might think of something like that to say so you don't keep heading down the path and talking about her unless you are in a safe position. Sometimes the people we engage and are with during conflict can be tricky. The relationship can spin into all the time talking about the troubled one (in this case your X) and probably not something you want to keep talking about. I know when I have moved on from a bad deal I need to only talk to the few people close to me and once I have moved to the next phase of healing I don't like to keep rehashing pain. Hope this is clear.

Di

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